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I Am therefore I think.

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby Tairaa » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:20 pm

Yes, that is one of the fundamental beauties of science, it changes to give the most accurate representation of facts based on what we can see, experiment, repeat or at least observe. Unlike religion, which only changes when it HAS to in order for people to continue believing. No one would be a catholic if they still dictated that the world was flat.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby sandra » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:42 pm

Tairaa wrote:Yes, that is one of the fundamental beauties of science, it changes to give the most accurate representation of facts based on what we can see, experiment, repeat or at least observe. Unlike religion, which only changes when it HAS to in order for people to continue believing. No one would be a catholic if they still dictated that the world was flat.


To make that type of statement, back it up, name the changes that have been mandatory in order for people to continue believing. Give examples that they HAD to change and when they did. Onus of proof is on you there, right? Because that is one far out there 'claim', that in no way is supported by a hypothesis or theory or scientific evidence, how could you know that? ;)
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby Tairaa » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:48 pm

By that I assume you mean the changes and reasons why they had to be made, and not that you're expecting reasoning for why they had to be changed when they were.

The ones that come to the top of my head are:
The earth was flat and round, as a coin with 4 distinct opposite sides, with heaven above and hell below. Changed for obvious reasons.
It used to be a rule, that it was not allowed to let a witch live. Changed for obvious reasons.
That bit about if a man forces himself unto a women and holds on to her for a week or whatever and shaves her head he can marry, unless he doesn't want her anymore then he can leave her. Hopefully you're familiar and I don't have to find the verse. It's Old Testament.

I dunno, those are the ones that stick out in my mind right now.

Simple truth:If the church still said the Earth was flat, I bet there wouldn't have 1 billion catholics.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby sandra » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:13 pm

Simple truth: I bet if scientists never knew about the Big Bang, there wouldn't be 1 billion Atheists.....wait that doesn't support my arguement. :lol:

I can understand where you are coming from, because you are speaking of the church, and your ideas of the church. Now how about every other belief system out there, please give examples. ;) :mrgreen:

You should understand that science or any belief thought process for the micro of it all, is subject to change and has.

This also supports new consciousness and how it transforms and influences our current knowledge of science or belief in god. My personal belief is that new consciousness is always brought in first, through a believer in God (remember I do not distinguish believer from non believer in my thought processing, as I believe no one is capable of denying God when he can be found in everything).....namely Jesus as the forefront of it all. As there is nothing that God does not entirely know. Do I expect anyone to understand what I am saying, no absolutely not. :mrgreen:
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby Tairaa » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:19 pm

If god knows everything then he's pretty sadistic.

If I go to hell because he never deigned to show me any evidence I'm going to be pretty chocked.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby sandra » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:57 pm

Hell is not some far off place to me, I have stated before, I believe we will experience heaven and hell, and more than once, right here as we live our lives, and through our darkest ours to be redelivered to the light. Transformations of beliefs.....they suck sometimes. You feel an uncertainty that is overbearing, but brought to light.

If you think heaven and hell are still some far off places, don't worry you won't be going there, but you could be in a far off place in the collective consciousness that supports the testimony of God. Thats just my type of thinking.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby Tairaa » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:30 am

Hahaha, well thank you. I don`t think I`m going to hell either.

I've no particular belief about a life after death. I don't think there will be one, but I hope there is. If I could choose I'd want to be reincarnated as another life again, repeatedly forever. But that's the thought pattern of a 19 year old who's life is put starting to open up, perhaps I'll not think that way if I should get to 69.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby sandra » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:14 am

My point above^ was that I will experience life after death, over and over and over and over again, what an ironic response you had. :mrgreen: :lol: ;)

I can't imagine you are only 19? Well you have all the time in the world.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby humphreys » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:22 am

chiselray wrote:It may well be refuted down the track..it could certainly happen...certainly as it is right now it is a plausible theory that the BB is the reality of how the universe was created.But if new data comes into it,that may change..Earth flat then round eg eg eg so...lets all assume what we wish to believe in and see who is right in the next 600-whatever years.


Certain theories are subject to change, but when we have a sufficient level of evidence in its favour, significant change becomes incredibly unlikely.

For instance, the claim that the Earth is flat is not on par with the claim that it is a sphere. Today, we have sufficient evidence to be sure it is a sphere, back when we thought it was flat, it was just a logical guess based on absense of any real evidence either way.

As Tairaa states, the evidence for the Big Bang is sufficient that we can be confident it's not going to be rejected in the future. While the causes of the Big Bang may be debated and subject to future revision, it is highly unlikely the Big Bang theory itself will change greatly in the future to the extent we start to believe it never happened at all.
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:27 pm

But that's the thought pattern of a 19 year old who's life is put starting to open up, perhaps I'll not think that way if I should get to 69.


Its a lot easier to have that thought an belief at 19, but when you get to seeing 69 on the horizon, you a lot closer to finding out for sure.
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