frrostedman wrote:Yes, but we I am sure are talking in 2 different contexts. As usual. I'm talking about in the grand scheme... when it's "all over." What purpose will it have served that humphreys gave money to a beggar or volunteered at the community insane asylum? It will have meant nothing. In the present, yes, we can have 'purpose' in life without a Creator. You can do good and make other people, and yourself as the case may be, feel better. Without a Creator, purpose, and an afterlife... you doing a good deed for someone is akin to me gifting you $100,000 just before an atomic bomb wipes us out. What a great thing I did! But... who cares. We're dead.
This makes no sense to me.
It makes no sense that making someone happy today means nothing if that person might cease to exist sometime in the future. He was happy at the time, and doing that deed made you feel good too, why does the distant future even enter into the equation? Makes no sense at all.
You like playing chess, right? Do you enjoy winning? Well, chess games end, and your victory at the game made no difference to the bigger scheme of things. Yet you enjoyed it. You enjoyed the game, and the win, and it made you feel good in the now.
Given your comments above, you really have no reason to play. The game is going to end. Playing it won't help get you into heaven, and yet you did it, and I know exactly why you did, and so do you, and yet you and people like Sproul still suggest that this stuff is meaningless if we cease to exist.
Chess has a purpose, regardless of the game ending, and regardless of an afterlife. It has a purpose because we gave it a purpose, just as we do in our own lives. Much of our lives we don't even remember, and yet they happened, and they affect the future. There will come a point in time when humans live forever, and everyone alive today will have contributed to that future in some small way.
In that case, your God is meaningless, and nothing, as he has no higher power attributing purpose and meaning to his existence.
It is said that God's creation, all of it, is what God chose in order to give Himself purpose. A single perfect being with nothing else around it, doesn't seem to have any purpose, I'll agree. You see vanity in that God created all this to glorify Himself. Whereas some of us are thankful for having been created in the first place and gladly give God the glory for it.
Great, so, we're agreed, that, like God, we can give our lives meaning and purpose.
If, say, in 1 billion years time, by some freak event, your God dies, does that mean he was meaningless after all? Of course not, because meaning is derived from the now, and cannot be taken away from death. The two are not connected in any way. If you have purpose and meaning, you have purpose and meaning, the fact that you die does not negate the fact that you did have purpose and meaning while you lived.
Essentially, your argument is flawed as you make "purpose" and "meaning" objective terms, when they do not have to be. We create our own purpose, and meaning.
Yes, that's what the humanists believe. The Christians on the other hand believe we exist to glorify (in a sense, 'give purpose and praise to') God.
Right, let's just not pretend the Christians have us over a barrel with their infallible logic proving that without God and eternal existence our lives have no meaning.
Either we're nothing, or your God is nothing, using Sproul's logic.
In order to deduce that, you would have to insist that God "came from nothing," which Sproul does not believe, and that God is "headed toward nothing," which Sproul also does not believe.
Well, God did not come from something, and the opposite of some thing, is no thing.
If you want to suggest he was always around, then maybe the Universe was too, or at least the materials that triggered the big bang. Does that really make any difference? No, because Sproul's argument itself is nonsense.
frrostedman wrote:Instead of thinking of God's existence as a straight line with a beginning and an end, we should instead think of it as a circle with no beginning and no end.
A lot of scientists see the Universe, and time, in the same way.
Very few scientists today assume that time really is linear, we just perceive it as such.
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."
- Sam Harris