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9-11 When Science conflits with The Official Reports

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Postby AlphaOmega » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:03 pm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 836573015#

I do not offer opinion but ask for comments and feed back.

Background and Credentials of Prof. Steven Jones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

This will obviously lead to the question "How were the bombs placed in to the WTC buildings?"

The Answer could be: The WTC Buildings were completely closed off to everyone on the Labor Day weekend for 3 days prior to 9-11 for maintenance, according to the information I have gathered so far it has been suggested that the only people allowed in the buildings were "maintenance staff and technicians or persons authorized by WTC Security only"

From what I am able to gather this was a 24 hour a day lockdown during this 3 day period. I have not been able to determine as yet how many Maintenance Staff and Technicians were working during this period however the crews did work 24 hours a day for each of the 3 days.

Therefore: Would this be enough time to plant bombs??? I believe that would depend on the numbers of such work crews if indeed bombs were planted.
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Postby 3dvd » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:40 pm

Jones has found paint. That is all, just paint. It may or may not be paint from the WTC as there is no chain of custody, just samples sent in from a few people. Even if it was super duper nano-thermite, painting the columns then igniting the paint would raise the columns temperature less than ten degrees. Big whoop.
Jones even had to have his buddy Harrit publish in a vanity journal because they knew any real peer reviewed journal would laugh in their faces because of the lousy methodology and dubious conclusions.
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Postby AlphaOmega » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:01 am

3dvd wrote:Jones has found paint. That is all, just paint. It may or may not be paint from the WTC as there is no chain of custody, just samples sent in from a few people. Even if it was super duper nano-thermite, painting the columns then igniting the paint would raise the columns temperature less than ten degrees. Big whoop.
Jones even had to have his buddy Harrit publish in a vanity journal because they knew any real peer reviewed journal would laugh in their faces because of the lousy methodology and dubious conclusions.



Paint eh? Interesting considering the fact that according to the 9-11 Commission's Report clearly states the the fire were so intense that they melted metal.

Yet you claim he found paint.

Please show us the scientific evidence you are relying upon to make this claim by providing a link to M.I.T or any other University or Published document which states paint can survive 800 degree temperatures and fire.

Or you may just want to watch the video presentation in it's entirety before making comment which clearly shows your scientific ignorance.


EDIT: Furthermore it seems that you can not accept that they (The 9-11 Commission) got it wrong because they rushed the investigation and as such did not do it properly....Oh but all those involved in the investigation who were/are on the government payroll are perfect aren't they?...Rhetorical

As for you vulcan6gun I still have you ignored.
Last edited by AlphaOmega on Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby vulcan6gun » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:46 am

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Postby 3dvd » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:02 pm

I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about the Harrit-Jones "paper" that appeared in the Bentham open-journal. Are you harping on Jones' long discredited (and abandoned by Jones himself) attempts to prove demolition by conventional explosives? Get with the times, please.
The paint I was referring to is fantasized about in the above mentioned "paper".

I see Jones' credentials were mentioned in the OP. Was his work on the resurrected Jesus appearing in North America to an unknown Jewish tribe mentioned? How about his complete acceptance of the cold fusion debacle? You really should research all sides of a story before hitching your cart to a dead horse.
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Postby greeney2 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:36 am

The Answer could be: The WTC Buildings were completely closed off to everyone on the Labor Day weekend for 3 days prior to 9-11 for maintenance, according to the information I have gathered so far it has been suggested that the only people allowed in the buildings were "maintenance staff and technicians or persons authorized by WTC Security only"



EVer worked for a big company or factory? Anyone who has knows the weekend overtime is always an ongoing planning. Thurs/Friday everyone is scrambling for it, and the diehard overtime addicts, are always on top of it. Even non-union places have overtime books, but in union shops everybody is in overtime groups according to your classification. Everyweek your overtime hours are logged, and books are maintained religiously. There are more grieviences filed over overtime displament in union shops than any other grievience. Especially Maintinance crews, they always plan upgrades or major things around many holidays of long weekends, where the holiday Day pays triple time. These things are planned months in advance, require ordering of materials, meetings, and more meetings. The WTC probably had 3 shifts 24/7, as factorys and big buildings can never be unmanned, always having electicians for sure, and probably pumbers. Many things in Maintinance, require people, and are never left completly shut down.
Your theory proposes, that all these maintinance people would be home, and some sort of false security and maintinace crews would somehow end up in control of the buildings, plus management personal--2 of them. The overtime book, would have the lowest overtime logged people all asking, "I'm low man in overtime, we never are unmanned, how can you not bring me in? You would have mass grievences for overtime immediatly. Not only is the idea you would have not have thousands of employees in maintinance trades, all looking at these overtime records, management would have been in meetings and planning for some big project for months ahead, that was going to require some "special long weekend", and special crews, and special security.

Looking a little deeper into this, something about the theory didn;t quite add up. The WTC was attacked on Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2001. LABOR DAY IN 2001 WAS ON THE PRECEEDING MONDAY, SEPT 3 RD. According to your plan, terrorists decided to wait until the following weekend was past, 8 days after the 3-Day weekend explosives planting? They would not have needed the airplanes, they would have blown the building the minute they could have.
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Postby vulcan6gun » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:31 pm

Low carbon steels lose most of their structural strength before they hit the annealing point, about 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit. If the fires in the Towers hit 1,500 degrees F, I don't see what there is to not understand, since they were steel framed buildings as opposed to steel reinforced concrete buildings.

As for the 'jet fuel all burnt off' theory, it blatantly overlooks the presence of plastics and wood inside the Towers from finishing materials, carpet, office furnishings, paper, electronics, electrical wiring and plumbing. There is no reason whatsoever to believe there was a lack of fuel to support combustion, especially since we are all aware that some parts of the Towers continued to burn after they collapsed.

The 'bomb burst' effect is readily attributed to the fact that as each floor collapsed, it had to displace about 40,000 cubic feet of air. Other explosions can be attributed to damaged steam and natural gas lines.

No detonators have been found. No traces of Thermite have been found. No parts of military missiles of any size have been found. No 'evidence' that anyone has dredged up points to anything other than large aircraft being used to destroy large skyscrapers. The jetliners worked like FAE bombs, and the residual fires, regardless of fuel source, weakened the buildings near the site of the planes' impacts sufficiently to cause catastrophic failure. In the case of WTC7, a combination of structural damage from parts of WTC 1 and/or 2 and fires caused by said damage was enough to cause a similar collapse.
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Postby greeney2 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:01 pm

Low carbon steels lose most of their structural strength before they hit the annealing point, about 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit.


Thank God! Someone finally speaks up that understands the iron carbon diagram, I have been talking about, since all these heat related ideas of the fire. Valcan, if you ever had any metalurgy classes that covered Iron and carbon, or know about time/temp heat treating curves or annealing processes, you know what happens. Most people think the steel had to melt to fail which occurs around 2800 degrees. They do not understand the total transformation that occurs in steel from one lattice structure to another in the 1300-1500 range. In heat treating or annealing, you raise temps to above the Eutectic Temp, and quench within the time temp range to recrystalize the grains to heat treat, slow cool to anneal. Steel is affected metalugically when subjected to 600-700 F. and further affected by what contacts is surface, such as fumes/oxygen/ contanimants that invade grain boundries. Fires are one of the most distructive of affects on steel. Cars that burn are metalurgical damage beyond repair. over 1500 F steel is a solid solution of Iron and Carbon, is non magnetic, and has no tensile strength, transfored into a face centerd lattice. Upon quenching, the iron/carbon crystalizes into a grain sturcture of Pearlite and ferrite, interlocked togather in a ridgid lattice structure having hardness and tensile strength, and becomes magnetic again, in a body centered lattice. Entire beams did not have to transform to fail, only segments of attachments needed to reach these temps. and begin the grain transformation. These temperature are not even in ranges that turn steel to red or orange in color, they are still grey in color.
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Postby AlphaOmega » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:36 pm

Looking a little deeper into this, something about the theory didn;t quite add up. The WTC was attacked on Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2001. LABOR DAY IN 2001 WAS ON THE PRECEDING MONDAY, SEPT 3 RD. According to your plan, terrorists decided to wait until the following weekend was past, 8 days after the 3-Day weekend explosives planting? They would not have needed the airplanes, they would have blown the building the minute they could have.


Who said it was "The" terrorists :?: :?: :?:

I am currently chasing a lead that basically eludes to the fact to the fact that the government not only had prior knowledge of the attack as many have claimed before. But the lead I am chasing eludes to the fact the the government Knew the exact date of attack.

Hopefully, if it bears out it will also show WHEN the government knew.

I can smell High Treason charges.

But you people aren't interested, so as I have stated I am moving on.
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Postby greeney2 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:05 pm

But you people aren't interested, so as I have stated I am moving on.


You are one running away!
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