The Black Vault

I would like scientific answers to the questions posed in this video clip please.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv1MIDF2XM4



Delayed Death Toll:

In the 1970's Asbestos was widely used in the construction industry globally that being said I would therefore find it reasonable to believe that the Death Toll of 9-11-2001 would have a delayed effect which will be greatly increased from the 2752 people killed on that day to possibly figures greater than 250,000 people.

My reasoning is simply that amongst the dust and smoke asbestos fibres would have been inhaled by survivors, rescuers, bystanders and volunteers who began working at ground zero after the attacks who did not use or were issued with PPE (Personal Protection Equipment).

This would ultimately have meant that hundreds of thousands of people could contract asbestosis and not die until many years after the attacks.


What are the thoughts of people on this forum on this issue?

I do not ever recall anyone raising this issue in the media, whether a private citizen or a government representative from any government.

If such issues were raised, what (if any) compensation or health plans have been put in place to assist those affected

Or is it simply that such future deaths will go widely un-reported with little or no fanfare

Ultimately, what is the REAL DEATH TOLL of 9-11-2001, have these issues ever really been factored in by anyone from the U. S Government or it's multiple agencies including the CDC and FEMA

It has definatly been discussed that many of the surviving firefighters, police, rescusers, and construction workers, have developed severe lung and respiratory diseases, many going into disabiltiy and retire for it. Its no secret.

Thank you Greeny2 do you have any figures?


Also I ask for peoples thoughts on the following:

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgu ... 6AO1zL3MBw

I would also like to direct people to this site to check out. It has links in the discussion worth seeing and they raise more questions than answers I fear.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//ind ... opic=14399

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/inde ... opic=15888

I am beginning to think that the JFK assassination is going to somehow pale into insignificance in comparison to 9-11 and the number of questions which will never be answered. Or at least will never be answered in my lifetime.

I have a hypothesis working...it goes like this:

There are 4 basic categories which 9/11 conspiracy theorists fall into. Category 1 is Repressed Guilt, brought on by the unsupported belief that the theorist might have been able to help prevent the attacks somehow. Category 2 is Leftover Hippies and their offspring, which wouldn't believe the Government if it told them their house was burning and they could see the flames. Category 3 is Glory-Seekers, basically bored people out to make a name for themselves. Lastly, there is Category 4, Disinformation Specialists, out to generate anti-American sentiment, and divide US public opinion to cause confusion and/or civil unrest, which will make future attacks easier to perpetrate.

Unfortunately, all 4 categories have managed to accomplish one goal: upsetting the survivors and the victims' families to no end, as well as disrespecting the fallen heroes and victims of the attacks.

For what it's worth, I also have a second theory: Part 1, that our Government did hide some data in effort to escape culpability for being caught with their pants down, because they should have been fired for incompetence...they failed their duty of protecting the citizens and property of the United States of America. Part 2 is other data was hidden in effort to aid in hunting down and prosecuting the perpetrators of these attacks. I have no issues with Part 2.

There is a second goal which has been accomplished by people spinning conspiracy theories: they have drawn attention away from the 'masterminds' which ran the Federal Aviation Administration, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Central Intelligence Agency, North American Air Defense and the Department of Defense. These are the parties which, through interdepartmental bickering, glory seeking and shirking of responsibility, allowed the attacks to happen.

Because of the conspiracy theories which drew attention away, none of them were punished for their lack of action at the worst possible time. Go ahead, ask me why 9/11/01 conspiracy theories upset me. Oh wait, I just told you, didn't I...

AlphaOmega, Cole_Trickle, Tairaa, I found more photos of 9/11/01 aircraft (and human) wreckage for you. Warning: This link's not for kids!

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html

If you study the photos and ignore the site author's added text, they speak volumes about what happened. At least if, like me, you've done air crash recovery and been a military explosives handler they do...

1. I am not here to discuss the motives of Conspiracy Theorists vulcan6gun, those sorts of issues are of no interest to me and I believe I made that patently clear in my original posting.

2. I am seeking credible and scientific explanations to a series of questions I believe have gone to this date unanswered.

3. Agreed there is a lot of "dis-information" out there which makes getting to the truth so much harder.

4. I have been today been switching between this site and PilotsFor911Truth.org reading what is out there and watching provided evidence.

5. I find that this site if one wades thought the bickering, that there is some very good information which has come about because of good researchers.

6. PilotsFore911Truth is from my point of view, is a very well researched site which, is backed up by science when it comes to the aviation angle i.e flight paths, FDR (Flight Data Recorder) or Black Box information as provided by the NTSB, such that it is which, is then compared to the "Official Line" by seasoned pilots and other relevantly qualified persons.

7. As I have also stated, I believe this particular organization has raised questions and shown significant discrepancies in the official version of events which the NTSB and other alphabet agencies refuse to answer.

You go on to say in your closing the following:
"Because of the conspiracy theories which drew attention away, none of them were punished for their lack of action at the worst possible time. Go ahead, ask me why 9/11/01 conspiracy theories upset me. Oh wait, I just told you, didn't I..."

Which leads me put these questions to you:

1. If you abhor conspiracy theories as much as you claim ...why are you a member of a known Conspiracy Discussion website and participating in discussion about such theories

2. Is it merely your goal to debunk any and all persons who have questions or who dares to question the U. S Government's version of what happened

3. Or could you indeed be one of the "dis-information" agents you claim operate on such sites as this one Which would therefore appear to be one of the very Conspiracy Theories you claim to have such a disliking to, somewhat a paradoxical situation if not hypocritical, don't you think

You further go on to say:

"AlphaOmega, Cole_Trickle, Tairaa, I found more photos of 9/11/01 aircraft (and human) wreckage for you. Warning: This link's not for kids!"

Do you imply that myself and these other people are children That would in my view be your way of calling me out for a fight or is it a feeble and transparent attempt to derail an intelligent analysis of the questions I posed in my original post which, I very clearly and politely asked for.

Learn to play nice, I may be new here but I am nobody's whipping boy and I hazard a calculated guess that you are not, will not or have ever been good enough to try.

You then say:

"If you study the photos and ignore the site author's added text, they speak volumes about what happened. At least if, like me, you've done air crash recovery and been a military explosives handler they do..."

1. Ignoring text of the author of the site you recommended defeats the entire purpose of any investigation scientific or otherwise.

2. To do so would be irresponsible if one is seeking answers to questions.

3. It is akin to a Police Officer investigating a murder, ignoring eyewitness statements and not following up on leads which could quickly apprehend the perpetrator of the crime or as simple as not following procedure or reading instructions about handling explosive ordinance.

I am glad to have not followed you advice about the way in which to approach the site you recommend me to investigate, I hope this is not the same type of advice you would adhere to when handling Explosive Ordinance as I would hate to think you are typing with one hand whilst sitting at your computer in a wheelchair.

Back on topic please,
AO

AlphaOmega wrote:I am glad to have not followed you advice about the way in which to approach the site you recommend me to investigate, I hope this is not the same type of advice you would adhere to when handling Explosive Ordinance as I would hate to think you are typing with one hand whilst sitting at your computer in a wheelchair.

Back on topic please,
AO

I was on topic, thank you, and be aware that I do have a very real physical disability from a non-explosives-related injury, and you, Sir, are guilty of discrimination. I expect an apology for your remark.

AlphaOmega wrote:This would ultimately have meant that hundreds of thousands of people could contract asbestosis and not die until many years after the attacks.

I haven't discussed this issue in ages and so had to look up some facts to see what the official word is on this issue now a days. So what i found was that per the panel on World Trade Center health problems there have been approx. 10,500 people that have received federal funds for treatment. New York is pretty much left on their own with dealing with this problem. Late occurrences of rarer cancers and it's over all effects cannot be determined as of yet until at least a decade has passed. Some 71,000 people have come forward to have their health monitored.

My guess is a real death toll number will never really be known.

What are the thoughts of people on this forum on this issue?

Beats me what other people think on this forum regarding this subject. I myself figure as long as a bill like this one:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-6594

can't get passed the United States government really doesn't give a flying sh*t about the long term victims from that day.

Wikipedia has an interesting article on the health effects from 9/11 if you are interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks

I can say I do recall rather well how in the first year we where told over and over again that ground zero and surrounding areas was safe to work in. This video quotes the different sources that reported over and over again how all was well and all would be well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hys3PlNP42A&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ecoworld.com%2Fhealth%2Fenvironmental-impact-0911-attacks.html&feature=player_embedded

I don't watch the media but I do scan a variety of different US and international news sources quite often and I have never seen anyone report about this problem in depth. You can find personal stories about those who have become sick from the asbestos but a real chunk of news reporting figures and facts is rarer.

The death toll of 9/11 is definitely growing and the amount of law suits will grow, federal funding will be more strapped than it is now.....and those who are suffering today because they where part of the rescue crew and clean up crew fall in the same category as any other type of funding or programs that have to do with "long term care" or "preventive care".....they get ignored, down played or funds get cut every year.

To inja:

Thank you for the links...I will FULLY check them out.


To vulcan6gun:

You quote me while screaming foul about discrimination over your claimed disability while claiming I need to apologize to you.

The entire section you should have quoted is:

"You then say:

"If you study the photos and ignore the site author's added text, they speak volumes about what happened. At least if, like me, you've done air crash recovery and been a military explosives handler they do..."

1. Ignoring text of the author of the site you recommended defeats the entire purpose of any investigation scientific or otherwise.

2. To do so would be irresponsible if one is seeking answers to questions.

3. It is akin to a Police Officer investigating a murder, ignoring eyewitness statements and not following up on leads which could quickly apprehend the perpetrator of the crime or as simple as not following procedure or reading instructions about handling explosive ordinance.

I am glad to have not followed you advice about the way in which to approach the site you recommend me to investigate, I hope this is not the same type of advice you would adhere to when handling Explosive Ordinance as I would hate to think you are typing with one hand whilst sitting at your computer in a wheelchair.

Back on topic please,
AO"

Nowhere in that section of my post did I discriminate against you..and you know it so "MAN UP" you skirt and stop trying to derail the topic............

Therefore there will be NO APOLOGY as you do not deserve one as I have not done as you claim.

Edited to add the originating post for those who can't or won't read.

I would like scientific answers to the questions posed in this video clip please.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv1MIDF2XM4



Delayed Death Toll:

In the 1970's Asbestos was widely used in the construction industry globally that being said I would therefore find it reasonable to believe that the Death Toll of 9-11-2001 would have a delayed effect which will be greatly increased from the 2752 people killed on that day to possibly figures greater than 250,000 people.

My reasoning is simply that amongst the dust and smoke asbestos fibres would have been inhaled by survivors, rescuers, bystanders and volunteers who began working at ground zero after the attacks who did not use or were issued with PPE (Personal Protection Equipment).

This would ultimately have meant that hundreds of thousands of people could contract asbestosis and not die until many years after the attacks.


What are the thoughts of people on this forum on this issue?

I do not ever recall anyone raising this issue in the media, whether a private citizen or a government representative from any government.

If such issues were raised, what (if any) compensation or health plans have been put in place to assist those affected

Or is it simply that such future deaths will go widely un-reported with little or no fanfare

Ultimately, what is the REAL DEATH TOLL of 9-11-2001, have these issues ever really been factored in by anyone from the U. S Government or it's multiple agencies including the CDC and FEMA

I also refer people to my post in the New Member Introduction Forum.

AO

Not true, nice try, you violated Board rules and your post has been reported since you refuse to apologize. At least I offered you the opportunity.

I will highlight the problem area again:

AlphaOmega wrote:I am glad to have not followed you advice about the way in which to approach the site you recommend me to investigate, I hope this is not the same type of advice you would adhere to when handling Explosive Ordinance as I would hate to think you are typing with one hand whilst sitting at your computer in a wheelchair.

vulcan6gun wrote:Not true, nice try, you violated Board rules and your post has been reported since you refuse to apologize. At least I offered you the opportunity.

I will highlight the problem area again:

AlphaOmega wrote:I am glad to have not followed you advice about the way in which to approach the site you recommend me to investigate, I hope this is not the same type of advice you would adhere to when handling Explosive Ordinance as I would hate to think you are typing with one hand whilst sitting at your computer in a wheelchair.

I have responded and what I said stands.....MAN UP.............Oh meet the ignore feature of this great site vulcan6gun.


AO