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Where is the anti-war crowd?

Discuss the War on Terrorism, Homeland Security, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea and other global terrorist concerns.

Postby greeney2 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:30 pm

If this was last August you would be all over the board chastizing Bush, but this one is on Obama's watch and Obama's stratagy the war should be taken to Afganistan. Did you even care about our boys being killed or just about getting Bush out and a Democrat into office?

August deadliest month for US in Afghanistan
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Slideshow:Afghan Election Play Video Video:Afghan election too close to call AP Play Video Video:Karzai calls Afghan vote successful Reuters AFP/File – Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai (right) looks on as US envoy Richard Holbrooke speaks during a meeting … By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer Robert H. Reid, Associated Press Writer – 2 mins ago
KABUL – An American service member died Friday when his vehicle struck a bomb in eastern Afghanistan, making August the deadliest month for U.S. forces in the nearly eight-year war.

The grim milestone comes as the top U.S. commander prepares to submit his assessment of the conflict — a report expected to trigger intense debate on the Obama administration's strategy in an increasingly unpopular war.

The latest death was reported as Afghan officials announced an 80 percent increase in the number of major fraud allegations submitted after last week's disputed presidential election — a sign of the deep challenges facing the U.S. and its allies in shoring up a legitimate Afghan government capable of withstanding the Taliban insurgency, corruption and drug trafficking.

A brief statement by the NATO command gave few details of the blast and did not say precisely where it occurred. U.S. military spokeswoman Capt. Elizabeth Mathias said the service member who died was American.

That brought to 45 the number of U.S. service members killed this month in the Afghan war — one more than the previous monthly record, set in July.

American casualties have been rising steadily following President Barack Obama's decision to send 21,000 additional troops to Afghanistan to combat a resurgent Taliban and train Afghan security forces to assume a greater role in battling the insurgents.

Obama's decision was part of a strategic shift in the U.S. war against international Islamic extremism — moving resources from Iraq, which had been center stage since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion but where violence has declined sharply from levels of two years ago.

A record 62,000 U.S. troops are now in the country, with 4,000 more due before year's end. That compares with about 130,000 in Iraq, most due to leave next year.

Since the fresh troops began arriving in Afghanistan last spring, U.S. deaths have climbed steadily — from 12 in May to more than 40 for the past two months as American forces have taken the fight to the Taliban in areas of the country which have long been under insurgent control.

At least 732 U.S. service members have died in the Afghan war since the U.S.-led invasion of late 2001. Nearly 60 percent of those deaths occurred since the Taliban insurgency began to rebound in 2007.

The latest spike in U.S. deaths has raised doubts among the United States and its allies about the course of the war, which was launched by the Bush administration after the Taliban government refused to hand over Osama bin Laden for his role in the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks in the United States.

A recent Washington Post-ABC News poll found that just over 50 percent of the American respondents said the war in Afghanistan was not worth fighting. Anti-war sentiment is also growing in Britain following a spike in deaths among British forces in Afghanistan.

The debate over the war is likely to accelerate when the new top commander in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, submits an assessment of the conflict by the end of this month.

McChrystal, who commanded special operations troops in Iraq, is expected to give a bleak assessment of the war, pointing to deficiencies in the Afghan government and recommending vastly expanding the size of Afghanistan's own security forces.

Those weaknesses in the Afghan government have come into sharp focus since the flawed Aug. 20 presidential election, which produced allegations of widespread fraud — most leveled by opponents of President Hamid Karzai.

Final results are not expected for weeks, but preliminary figures released this week show Karzai leading the 36-candidate field with 44.8 percent of the vote, followed by ex-Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah with 35.1 percent. A runoff must be held if no candidate wins more than 50 percent. Abdullah has accused Karzai of rigging the election, a charge the incumbent denies.

On Friday, the U.N.-backed Electoral Complaints Commission said the number of major fraud complaints which could "materially affect" the outcome had soared to 270. On Wednesday, the commission said it had received 150 major complaints, which could delay announcement of the final results.

The lengthy election process has added to strains in U.S.-Afghan relations, which had already cooled since the Obama administration took office.

On Friday, two officials said Karzai angrily accused the U.S. of pushing for a runoff vote during a heated meeting with the special envoy to the region.

According to officials familiar with the encounter, the verbal exchange occurred the day after the Aug. 20 vote during a meeting in Kabul between Karzai and U.S. special envoy Richard Holbrooke. The officials were briefed about the meeting and spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information.

Karzai assured Holbrooke he would accept the election results but bristled when Holbrooke asked if he would also agree to a runoff.

An angry Karzai accused the U.S. of urging a second round before all votes had been counted. Karzai said he would accept the election commission's tabulation as long as it reflected the facts. He did not elaborate, according to the officials.

The U.S. Embassy confirmed the Aug. 21 meeting and said the two discussed the election but would not go into details.

"There was no shouting and no one stormed out," said Caitlin Hayden, an embassy spokeswoman. She noted Holbrooke and Karzai met again a few days later. Karzai spokesman Humayun Hamidzada also confirmed the meeting but gave no further details.

Karzai enjoyed close ties with the Bush administration, which helped propel him to power after the collapse of the Taliban government in the U.S.-led invasion.

Since the Obama administration took office, U.S. officials have accused Karzai of weak leadership as well as tolerating corruption and a flourishing drug trade.

The New York Times reported this week that the Obama administration is alarmed at the prospect that Karzai's running mate, Mohammad Qasim Fahim, may be linked to the drug trade.

Quoting an unidentified administration official, the newspaper said if Fahim becomes vice president, the U.S. would likely consider imposing sanctions such as refusing him a U.S. visa or going after his personal finances.

A U.S. official in Washington confirmed the essence of the report, saying there were "a number of individuals" whom the U.S. would not like to see in a future Afghan government. He spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive subject matter.

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Postby hxxx » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:13 pm

Are you really questioning whether the anti-war crowd cares about the deaths of 'our boys'?

Obama's eloquence has lulled much of the sheep back into their usual state of apathy.

BO is just another piece of the same old machine. It's hard to be disappointed when one starts with low expectations, but BO has disappointed with regards to the fact that both Afghanistan and Iraq are consuming $$$ and lives without end in sight.

8 years later, has it been worth it?

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Postby Tairaa » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:42 pm

American casualties have been rising steadily following President Barack Obama's decision to send 21,000 additional troops to Afghanistan to combat a resurgent Taliban and train Afghan security forces to assume a greater role in battling the insurgents.

Are we surprised at this?

Increase troupe count, increase combat operations... But why on Earth are the causulties rising?
I dunno. Seems like a rather balanced equation to me.

It's sad, yes. The reason that I, personally, am not harping on Obama publicly (I do in person with people I know when discussing foreign politics) is because of 3 primary factors.

1) He hasn't been in office for that long, I didn't start publicly harping on about Bush until I was very certain that I heavily disagreed with his actions.
2) I'm not paying as close attention to foreign policy as I once did, and on top of that I'm getting older and more mature and I tend to keep my thoughts to myself a lot more then I used to. I don't care if people know what I'm thinking, and in fact, I prefer typically that they don't.
3) Bush started the wars, Obama said he wanted to pull out, but that's obviously not really a very good option given the circumstances.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby BloodStone » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:47 pm

What I noticed even more is :

While Bush was in office Iraq was almost at the tipping point where we could have left orderly in a few years. We made great progress by the time the Usurper got in.

Obama would like nothing more than to lose these two wars, and his lack of expierience is really showing big time in these two wars.

Even Afghanastan was getting much better. We had the Taliban pinned in a corner. Now they have regained a lot of ground cause of the lack of PLAN TO MOVE AHEAD.

This guy will cost many soldiers their lives for the next 4 years, if he don't pay attention to it now.
Way more than Bush ever could....

If it were raining hookers, I'd get hit by a fag.
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Postby greeney2 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:34 pm

One stupid thing he did was announce a time table for withdrawal. He owns this decision in Afganistan, he called for it, and it was a psrt of Obamas plan.
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Postby Dark-Samus » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:13 am

Since no one has started an anti war thingie, here I go first...

Afghanistan war is as pathetic as the Iraq war since both will never be solved no matter what anyone does. :roll:
Truth doesn´t control you, you control it...
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Postby BloodStone » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:01 am

I can't wait to see how Obama treats Cindy Sheenan. :lol:

She is back at it with the protesting, following him to Marthas vinyard. How will the dems who supported her feel now that they are the ones she is against. Wanna bet you see nothing about this in the leftists media. ahhh the Irony :D

Careful Cindy , You may be labeled a racist...

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Postby Nesaie » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:23 pm

Well, I'm here from the "anti-war" crowd, but I haven't been around much. We actually got a summer in Seattle this year and I now have a tan.

As far as Obama, I hate that fascist liar just like I hate the last fascist liar, Bush...and the fascist liar before him, Clinton...and so on. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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Postby gudskepteacal » Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:43 pm

HERE I AM GREENEY! What ever happened to schemer and dvd3 and the old crowd? miss the days...

The lives of American soldiers is something that should never be taken for granted. These days, unfortunately, it's hard to call their sacrifice justified.
The last line in Nesaie's post pretty much sums it up 4 me. Nice ref. by the way.
Would it have been too much to ask for the CHANGE to include a diversion from past foriegn policy? guess so
America is facing potential financial disaster and we're half way round the world nation building or humanitarianism or whatever. I'm sure Obama's and/or Bush's advisors could keep us enthralled with a topnotch answer to any doubt.

I also like hxxx's answer. It's a big world out there; if they really wanted to remedy all evil deeds, from a statistical standpoint, is that really the best starting place?

Bloodstone's Cindy Sheehan post is very...interesting. Something I didn't know. thanx

What does it take to bring our people back home and out of harm's way? I think hxxx has started another thread on that very topic.
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:11 pm

Well, I'm here from the "anti-war" crowd, but I haven't been around much. We actually got a summer in Seattle this year and I now have a tan.

Last year you hated Bush for global warming, now you are thanking him for your tan! :lol:

Guess we know your priorities! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by greeney2 on Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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