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Terra Australis (Atlantis) - conclusive evidence?

Here, you can discuss the Mayans, Atlantis, the Aztecs and other ancient and lost civilizations.

Postby Aquatank » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:47 am

So outside of a bunch of humans and their ancestors showing up worldwide, where are you getting Atlantis previous to Plato? Where are the overhead canal bypasses and aqueducts? There aren't any because the place never existed.
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Postby rath » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:08 am

Aquatank wrote:So outside of a bunch of humans and their ancestors showing up worldwide, where are you getting Atlantis previous to Plato? Where are the overhead canal bypasses and aqueducts? There aren't any because the place never existed.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Aquatank .......... Catch up would you.

There aren't any because the place never existed.


:lol:

When have i ever said Atlantis is a real place. :oops:

But just because Atlantis may not be a real place, does not mean that Plato didnt plagiarise the story.

EXAMPLE ....

'Harry Potter' Writer JK Rowling who plagiarised the 'Harry Potter' books,

I spose you think JK Rowling Didnt plagiarise the 'Harry Potter' books because there has never been a story about magic ever before JK Rowling wrote the Harry Potter' books, right.

Or that before the Bible was written, nobody believed in a God.

where are you getting Atlantis previous to Plato? Where are the overhead canal bypasses and aqueducts?





Gondwana

Binoomea

Pre-Egypt

Hiva ......... Left 7 Ancient Civilisations

Lemuria
Mu

Eldorado

Anchor wot

Japan's Underwater Ruins

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Tsunami_exp ... s_in_India

Ect Ect ........

There are many many more accounts of advanced lost Civilisations, with overhead canal bypasses and aqueducts & & much much more, & all of them are much much older accounts than Plato's story of Atlantis.
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Postby Aquatank » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:46 am

Accounts don't make hard facts. Its like my thing with dragons without firm concrete physical proof they're just speculation & fiction plenty of accounts of fights but no bones to examine to say it existed.

Plato may have been inspired old stories, Santarini accounts and Minoan civilization, he may have even plagarized a little but you'd be hard pressed to actually have that chrage stand up in court. But the point is nothing comes close to such a high civilization in the ancient world. Such civilizations would have had massive infrastructures of colossal architecture to pull off those feats. We find none of that.

What you are looking at is not physical realities, but a shared ideal of a utopian nation state, more like a political platform than a reality, something people want to build but the dream was shattered.
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Postby rath » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:43 pm

Aquatank wrote:Accounts don't make hard facts. Its like my thing with dragons without firm concrete physical proof they're just speculation & fiction plenty of accounts of fights but no bones to examine to say it existed.

Plato may have been inspired old stories, Santarini accounts and Minoan civilization, he may have even plagarized a little but you'd be hard pressed to actually have that chrage stand up in court. But the point is nothing comes close to such a high civilization in the ancient world. Such civilizations would have had massive infrastructures of colossal architecture to pull off those feats. We find none of that.

What you are looking at is not physical realities, but a shared ideal of a utopian nation state, more like a political platform than a reality, something people want to build but the dream was shattered.




Accounts don't make hard facts. Its like my thing with dragons without firm concrete physical proof they're just speculation & fiction plenty of accounts of fights but no bones to examine to say it existed.



http://www.physorg.com/news93669794.html

this show was cool.

http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/The_Last_D ... ckumentary)
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Postby Aquatank » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:05 pm

Ah yes the cretaceous Xianglong zhaoi another draco genus-like glider that spreads its ribs, more interesting is the permian Coelurosauravus which may have had indepedent wings of a sort. Nice, but I really expected you to bring up the late pleistocene (during Homo Sapien & Homo Neanderthalensis existence) & Australian Megalania prisca (about the size of an old male Saltwater Crocodile) :D Unfortunately neither of those are as big as the Account of the 120 ft long dragon slain out side Carthage and sent to the Roman senate by Regulus. Finding that hide would be evidence, otherwise its speculation.

I've got last dragon on dvd, its basically a rehash of hypothesis from Flight of Dragons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwaZn-85 ... L&index=63 I forgot Rankin & Bass did that film version of the book :roll:
Aquatank
 
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Postby rath » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:39 pm

Aquatank wrote:Accounts don't make hard facts. Its like my thing with dragons without firm concrete physical proof they're just speculation & fiction plenty of accounts of fights but no bones to examine to say it existed.

Plato may have been inspired old stories, Santarini accounts and Minoan civilization, he may have even plagarized a little but you'd be hard pressed to actually have that chrage stand up in court. But the point is nothing comes close to such a high civilization in the ancient world. Such civilizations would have had massive infrastructures of colossal architecture to pull off those feats. We find none of that.

What you are looking at is not physical realities, but a shared ideal of a utopian nation state, more like a political platform than a reality, something people want to build but the dream was shattered.


Ergo ........................


rath wrote:
Aquatank wrote:So outside of a bunch of humans and their ancestors showing up worldwide, where are you getting Atlantis previous to Plato? Where are the overhead canal bypasses and aqueducts? There aren't any because the place never existed.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Aquatank .......... Catch up would you.

There aren't any because the place never existed.


:lol:

When have i ever said Atlantis is a real place. :oops:

But just because Atlantis may not be a real place, does not mean that Plato didnt plagiarise the story.

EXAMPLE ....

'Harry Potter' Writer JK Rowling who plagiarised the 'Harry Potter' books,

I spose you think JK Rowling Didnt plagiarise the 'Harry Potter' books because there has never been a story about magic ever before JK Rowling wrote the Harry Potter' books, right.

Or that before the Bible was written, nobody believed in a God.

where are you getting Atlantis previous to Plato? Where are the overhead canal bypasses and aqueducts?





Gondwana

Binoomea

Pre-Egypt

Hiva ......... Left 7 Ancient Civilisations

Lemuria
Mu

Eldorado

Anchor wot

Japan's Underwater Ruins

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Tsunami_exp ... s_in_India

Ect Ect ........

There are many many more accounts of advanced lost Civilisations, with overhead canal bypasses and aqueducts & & much much more, & all of them are much much older accounts than Plato's story of Atlantis.






What makes you think we would find any proof at all.

just coz you cant prove something doesn't mean it never existed.

even if an advanced Civilisations had left evidence behind ..... what makes you think it would still be around today, all this time later.

even metal rusts.
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Postby Aquatank » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:24 am

Accounts of lost civilizations are a dime a dozen, its like trying to prove the existence of Hyperborea, Bifrost, that the Olympians actually live atop Mt. Olympus, finding a river Styx that leads to Hades, that the Earth is hollow with the core as their sun, or that Hell actually exists under Jerusalem. Some of these accounts of lost covilizations may have been factual, some are amalgamations that are lossely based on numerous facts, others are fabrications based on false assumptions and still others are pure fabrications of imagination. All these things have taken on a life of their own in peoples beliefs and added to a mythological belief system to the believers point of 'no evidence doesn't mean it doesn't/didn't exist' instead of 'we lack evidence but we believe it exists and intend to find the evidence'. Unfortunately as we have seen in politics & archaeology of late the lack of evidence for a belief often leads to the fabrication of false evidence which causes more belief. Any good archaeologists knows that hoaxes and false evidence floods the market and it is only through hard work that real artifacts and evidence are found.

How do we know that if such civilizations existed that we'd find evidence. Well first of all since we are dealing with Atlantis specifically we are looking for evidence of technologically advanced people probably 100 years plus than that of the Alexandrian Empire that also hide a large trading network in the Atlantic and Mediterranean. That means not all the evidence of the Atlanteans would be limited to Atlantis and that trade goods that are clearly from Atlantis would be found in other places and we could trace such artifacts back to a place of origin. No such things have been found. But they are so old you keep claiming, Well yeah we have a small problem here, deterioration. But we have found plenty of evidence of various technologies of far less advanced peoples toolkits that have escaped the ravages of time so why would high tech probably more durable equipment be lacking from the arcahaeological record unless of course it was made entirely of balsa wood? You need evidence, you can go on about alleged plagarizations by Plato, but if the place was a fact then any account of the place is not a true plagarization but another relating of facts. In otherwords if something is re-told the elements must match each each other to find the best account of what matches and what doesn't that way you narrow down what you are looking for to a Who, What, Why, Where, and When and then you start digging based on that to find the evidence, even Schliemann knew this. If Atlantis isn't really named Atlantis you have to find the right name, and you have to match the accounts. The problem is you have to Start at Plato, and after that Atlantis fall apart because there are so many "Atlantises" From Minoans, to Bahamas to the UK to Iceland to Rhine River civilizations to Mexico City to the Antilles. Everytime some new civilization or alleged civilization is found someone jumps to the often erroneus conclusion that it is Atlantis, in point of fact some people have decided instead of looking for the actual place they will lump all the ancients together and call the Atlantean Civilizations, or Atlantean Empire etc. etc. You need evidence for facts otherwise all you have are beliefs and creating beliefs is as easy as licking icecream.
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Postby rath » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:51 am

How do we know that if such civilizations existed that we'd find evidence. Well first of all since we are dealing with Atlantis specifically we are looking for evidence of technologically advanced people probably 100 years plus than that of the Alexandrian Empire that also hide a large trading network in the Atlantic and Mediterranean.


So your idea of an advanced civilization is ................ a mud house.

Ok.


My idea of an advanced civilization is somewhat more advanced than that.


Re: Stargate Atlantis
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Postby Aquatank » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:00 pm

I hate giving Atlantean believer ammo but here's my loose hypothesis of what Atlantis really was IF it ever existed.

It would have existed in the Atlantic probably on the Portugeuse, French, or Spanish coastline and was likely a glacial barrier island like Cape Cod. It probably would have been settled by pre-Indo European tribes who had a tendency to build woden cities within circular barriers. We may hypothesize that like later Castle builders their citadel walls may have been wooden walls filled with sand or dirt and covered in a plaster or stucco to make them look like rock. The canals may have been dug into the island weakening it to storms and such over head aquaducting and overpasses may have been wooden log flumes that also carried goods or passengers much like a theme park water ride does today. It is likely that at some point the people abandoned the worship of the Goddess and started worshipping a sea god in relation to their trade and proximity to the ocean. The likelihood of finding such a place is near impossible because if the island suffered a catcylsm like Port Royal did its wooden structures would have dissolved long before today and it would be a feat to dicover any ceramic remains since you are dealing with tidal water erosion and several tens of feat of sand and rock over such an alleged site. Since Metalurgy was fairly recent metal tools are unlikely to be found in such pre-6000BP site. IMO thats about as close as you are going to get to solving the Atlantis fiction, If you are really really really lucky ceramic trade items will start showing up in the archaeological record as a result of commerce. But thats an hypothesis, I don't say its fact buts its probably a more likely story than you know of yet.
Aquatank
 
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Postby rath » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:17 am

Aquatank wrote:I hate giving Atlantean believer ammo but here's my loose hypothesis of what Atlantis really was IF it ever existed.

It would have existed in the Atlantic probably on the Portugeuse, French, or Spanish coastline and was likely a glacial barrier island like Cape Cod. It probably would have been settled by pre-Indo European tribes who had a tendency to build woden cities within circular barriers. We may hypothesize that like later Castle builders their citadel walls may have been wooden walls filled with sand or dirt and covered in a plaster or stucco to make them look like rock. The canals may have been dug into the island weakening it to storms and such over head aquaducting and overpasses may have been wooden log flumes that also carried goods or passengers much like a theme park water ride does today. It is likely that at some point the people abandoned the worship of the Goddess and started worshipping a sea god in relation to their trade and proximity to the ocean. The likelihood of finding such a place is near impossible because if the island suffered a catcylsm like Port Royal did its wooden structures would have dissolved long before today and it would be a feat to dicover any ceramic remains since you are dealing with tidal water erosion and several tens of feat of sand and rock over such an alleged site. Since Metalurgy was fairly recent metal tools are unlikely to be found in such pre-6000BP site. IMO thats about as close as you are going to get to solving the Atlantis fiction, If you are really really really lucky ceramic trade items will start showing up in the archaeological record as a result of commerce. But thats an hypothesis, I don't say its fact buts its probably a more likely story than you know of yet.




1. I never said i belived the storys of Atlantis, However i do have an open mind.


2. [quotePortugeuse, French, or Spanish coastline and was likely a glacial barrier island like Cape Cod. It probably would have been settled by pre-Indo European tribes who had a tendency to build woden cities within circular barriers. ][/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

pre-Indo European :roll:

Of all the civilizations, you pick the one that has been around this world for the Least amount of time.

The Fact is ..................

A) It would have existed in the South Pacific & not the Atlantic.

B) The more advanced a civilizations get, the less trace you would ever find of then.

Look at our modern civilization, the more advanced we get the more we are useing more renewable & less destructive technologies.

ergo, in another 10,000 years or so there will be no buildings or item made of environmentally destructive materials, like steal & iron, nor will we need oil or coal to run our cities.
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