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US manned space flight in doubt 40 years after moon walk

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Postby _Billy_ » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:03 pm

Hopefully someone from the outside sector will take up the cause.
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Postby Percival » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:59 am

Seriously, this time round the russians will be there first, no doubt. They may have missed out 40 years ago but since then they have always been ahead in terms of manned space exploration. The ISS would never have happened without Russia's experience with Mir.

I think maybe NASA has had its day. Perhaps the US needs to bring private companies in closer to share funds like Roscosmos and ESA do. Russian company Energia are still pushing ahead with their Klipr design despite the russian space agency not being prepared to fund its development, and european company Astrium is developing its own manned space tourism program as well as manned versions of its ATV space truck.

I'm amazed how NASA seems to be dragging its heels these days in space. Orion is looking more and more like a Bush PR job.
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:06 pm

Perival, The MIR and the ISS are 2 totally different levels of technology. The MIR was an accident waiting to happen in terms of the way it was built. OUr Astronauts said it was a maze of safety hazzards, cable and lines exposed and all over the place. They didn't like being in the thing. NASA's pace has been very conserative since the first Appollo loss, but after Challenger and Columbia many things changed in the way they and suppliers like my company did things. You also didn't get to see all of Russias failures since the 60's. On the surface the Buran looked like our space shuttle, but in no way could compare to it. Buran only flew one time.
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Postby Percival » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:44 pm

True the ISS is a step on from MIr, but like I said, the Russians gained a lot of experience from the mistakes and handicaps of Mir. When it came to building a space station NASA didn't even have that to go on, that's why they needed Russia's know-how to even get it off the drawing board..

Russia gave up on Buran because they realised their soyuz system did the same job a lot cheaper. NASA spent 30 years distracting itself with the shuttle, an over-elaborate orbital launch system, when the russians saw that the future of space exploration beyond earth lay with gaining experience from building permanent habitations in space and studying how humans can live for extended periods in space. It's no surprise to see that while NASA is floundering over an Apollo re-hash, the russians invisage orbital facilities around earth, moon and mars, with simple tugs flying between. NASA thinks in terms of one-off missions, the russians think in terms future infrastructure and expansion, all because they have far more experience with living in space.
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:10 am

that's why they needed Russia's know-how to even get it off the drawing board..


I worked for the company that designed the Space Station. We did not us Russian know-how in its design, and infact was in design long before US astronaunts ever set foot in the MIR. The Space Station design underwent many versions that were scaled down from the initial designs. NASA didn't distract itself from anything with the shuttle, the shuttle has flown over 125 missions, and both lessons learned from Apollo and the Shuttle have been used in the Space Station.
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Postby chiselray » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:12 pm

_Billy_ wrote:Hopefully someone from the outside sector will take up the cause.



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Postby Aquatank » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:48 pm

The new moonshot will probably be in jeopardy largely because its planned to be more of technology demonstrator than an actual workhorse to the moon. It'd stand a better chance of not being cancelled IMHO if it was Jupiter Direct.
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:41 pm

In the space business everything depends on the President, and when a President is going to change, a lot of uncertainty preceeds the last year of any outgoing President. Reagan and Bush Sr. were the last days of cost plus programs, and Clinton ended those kind of Contracts, and began a trend of companies subcontracting work, much of it out of the country. Cost plus was gone, budgets were strained, but that changed aerospace and Space contracts totally, even thru the Bush 2 years. Obama hasn't talked about canceling programs yet, however when you are as liberal as he is, with such a liberal Congress, who knows what they will dump in favor of programs like Health care, or all these bail outs. It may not get cancelled, however stretching the schedule out further is a probabilityy, and I'm not convinced you will not see the shuttle extended to keep flying past 2010. Its replacement is a long ways off, so keeping it flying 5-10 more years seems logical, plus it would keep Rocketdyne active in those systems, which use some of the same major equipment, as the J-2 and RS-68 Delta rockets. Many of the engineers are in all these programs, plus the core of manufacturing experience.
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Postby Dark-Samus » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:02 am

If the americans really wants space flights to occur more often and so on for the good of everyone then stop giving money to celebrities, stop wasting money on weapons with like movre than half your money and stop wasting money on other useless things!
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Postby greeney2 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:52 am

Please elaborate, becasue your statement didn't make sence.
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