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When Alabama Troops Hit The Streets – Illegally?

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Postby Wing-Zero » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:48 am

greeney2 wrote:What is the timeline of events and what did they know for sure during the 6:40 call? The LAPD was overwhelmed pretty well by 2 shooters, heavily armed, and heavily dressed in protective gear. They were overwhelmed by firepower, and had to goto local gun stores for guns and ammo, for a several hour battle. I don;t know what the situation was with their police being overwhelmed, but someone called for help. I don't see it as "over the top", since there was a statewide mass murder.


And the military was where? Exactly, doing s**t that was relevant to military interests.

The cops had it covered once they figured out they weren't dealing with two-bit thugs who have a bunch of crappy Glocks. The COPS put two and two together, and they can easily do there in Alabama.

They don't need the military, and some scared deer of a citizen should NOT be reason to call them in.
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Postby Cole_Trickle » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:02 am

Wing-Zero wrote:Until an official order comes from either the governor or some higher up, it's illegal.



Indeed and there ends the lesson with most rational debate. It was illegal and the lack of a willingness to admit it speaks directly toward a Government screw up, or like I said, a test to see if anyone would notice. Obviously someone noticed.

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Postby greeney2 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:33 am

So what do you do now? Prosocute people if they made a mistake of helping? Fire them for being good people in a crisis? Haig was admonished by the Congress for what he did, which was really said "we have to do this but we were glad you did what you did"?

You keep saying this was a trival event, but killing 10 people including your family and taking potshots killing randon people, children I think also, is hardly trivial. Was the North Hollywood shootout trivial, or everytday business in Los Angeles? What is trivial is a witchhunt for something that ended up a judgement call by people in a real crisis. Would anyone argue if the same people came out to help the fire department with a church or school full of people burning, or would you stand for the duty officer telling them, "I can't, its illegal". Put this into proper perspective and imagine if you lived in this town during that problem. So even if it technically was illegal, how did it affect you living in California, or Washington, or anyplace else? The big picture is at best, a mistake only to secure peace and safety, than it was over. Nobodys liberty was affected or violated, even if it was imporper proceedure.
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Postby Cole_Trickle » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:44 am

greeney2 wrote:So what do you do now? Prosocute people if they made a mistake of helping? Fire them for being good people in a crisis? Haig was admonished by the Congress for what he did, which was really said "we have to do this but we were glad you did what you did"?

You keep saying this was a trival event, but killing 10 people including your family and taking potshots killing randon people is hardly trivial. Was the North Hollywood shootout trivia, or everytday business in Los Angeles? What is trivial is a witchhunt for something that ended up a judgement call by people in a real crisis. Would anyone argue if the same people came out to help the fire department with a church or school full of people burning, or would you stand for the duty officer telling them, "I can't, its illegal". Put this into proper perspective and imagine if you lived in this town during that problem.



I'm glad you said this Greeney before I could lay it to rest once and for all, surely this word will be the last in an otherwise rational debate. The use of Trained to kill the enemy MEN or WOMEN is not wise to employ within US BORDERS in an effort to do anything in the line of normal Police work. That's why it takes a protocol to make such a thing legal. In the Alabama shooting case IT WAS NOT LEGAL TO DEPLOY US ARMY TROOPS. One key reason is their mind set, they are trained to kill and to do so by following orders~~whether those orders require a conscience or not, TRAINED TO FOLLOW. Their personal judgment takes a back seat to their orders.

Just watch the video from this web site about US TROOPS/NATIONAL GUARD DEPLOYED IN New Orleans during the aftermath of Katrina~~sure the two are a different scale of events but the POINT IS THE EXACT SAME. The guardsmen sums it all up at the end of the 2 min clip.

http://adventuresofcitizenx.com/2008/04 ... rices.aspx


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Postby greeney2 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:31 am

To add just a little more perspective about being overwhelmed, able to handle such situations, much less a town who even thinks or knows, the fine edge of these laws, read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson,_Alabama

A very small town in Alabama where the most excitment in any given year may be the 4th of July fireworks, at the fairgrounds. Population of 2000, probably has a local sheriff, and a few cops, more like Mayberry, than anything like a big city where murders are daily. You are making a mountian out of a molehill, where simple small town people made a decision in a crisis.

Nothing diabolical, or no oppressive big brother, just a small town, who had never seen this kind of thing. This board is so intent on finding something henious or some top level blunder, you forget the world is also full of simple everyday people, and small towns. An international or even National issue this is not, all it is is a small town in trouble, and needing help. Why make it into something it isn;t.
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:30 am

this is my two cents.


I'll lend you a dime if you need it! :lol:

Judging something weeks and months after the fact, always has a different perspective, than right then when its happening. Lets find out out the exact timeline of events, to see what that perspective was to the people of Sampson, at 6:40 pm on that day. While I hear and understand the big picture of the law, does this unique event, create a stir that should be considered some National threat of military policing? God help us when our laws will allow a building to burn down, or someone to drown becasue a law prevents a life preserver to be thrown, becasue its littering. Do we get tickets for speeding 1mph over, or a red light turning 2 feet too soon? Common sence prevails in our system too.

Is this a gross violation of our laws and standards or is this one of the 1mph exceptions, or lets just call it a warning traffic stop and keep driving. Certainly Sampson to me only raises a philisopocal question of applying a minor thing to the major picture. There is always something in the middle of the extremes of inturpetations.

We have herd and seen websites dealing with these big pictures and that extreme, what have the opinions of the people of Sampson been? Are they seeing this big National vision, or are they just glad for anyone that helped that day?
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Postby Wing-Zero » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:47 pm

greeney2 wrote:So what do you do now? Prosocute people if they made a mistake of helping? Fire them for being good people in a crisis? Haig was admonished by the Congress for what he did, which was really said "we have to do this but we were glad you did what you did"?


Of course not. You don't prosecute someone just because they were scared. It's not really their fault, now is it?

But you DO get the message out there that you can't just call on the military every time a window rattles or a door handle shakes.

You keep saying this was a trival event, but killing 10 people including your family and taking potshots killing randon people, children I think also, is hardly trivial.


In the military's eyes, it is. It's a complete waste of our nation's armed forces.

Was the North Hollywood shootout trivial, or everytday business in Los Angeles? What is trivial is a witchhunt for something that ended up a judgement call by people in a real crisis.


What judgment call? No one MADE a call. If the governor or the defense secretary made this call you speak of then I wouldn't be having this discussion with you. I'd be all for it if it went through the proper channels.

But all I see here, like I said, is one timid deer who thought, "Well hey, the MP was here last time, so they should be here again!" That's NOT how it should work. That's NOT what our laws state.

Would anyone argue if the same people came out to help the fire department with a church or school full of people burning, or would you stand for the duty officer telling them, "I can't, its illegal".


I'd stand for both and condemn neither one of them. If the people want to help they'll do it anyways, but that doesn't excuse the officer from telling them that they can't.

Put this into proper perspective and imagine if you lived in this town during that problem. So even if it technically was illegal, how did it affect you living in California, or Washington, or anyplace else? The big picture is at best, a mistake only to secure peace and safety, than it was over. Nobodys liberty was affected or violated, even if it was imporper proceedure.


Since we're running on a hypothetical, I wouldn't want the f**king army called in. I'd want my police force, who I (theoretically) call upon and have much more riding on the line on a daily basis than the military men and women of this country.
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:05 pm

Quote:
Put this into proper perspective and imagine if you lived in this town during that problem. So even if it technically was illegal, how did it affect you living in California, or Washington, or anyplace else? The big picture is at best, a mistake only to secure peace and safety, than it was over. Nobodys liberty was affected or violated, even if it was imporper proceedure.



Since we're running on a hypothetical, I wouldn't want the f**king army called in. I'd want my police force, who I (theoretically) call upon and have much more riding on the line on a daily basis than the military men and women of this country.


And my responce to that is what police force, you don't live in a town or 2000 people with the most serious crime is equal to Andy of Mayberry. Big news in these towns is Tuesdays coupon section in the paper for the local Market, or Pot Roast and Taters night, down at the YMCA, goin over to Mt. Pilot for Bingo at the church. This is making a mountian out of a molehill. A 10 person murder spree is not trivial and is not normal anyplace, let alone Sampson, Alabama.[url][/url]
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Postby Wing-Zero » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:56 pm

greeney2 wrote:And my responce to that is what police force, you don't live in a town or 2000 people with the most serious crime is equal to Andy of Mayberry. Big news in these towns is Tuesdays coupon section in the paper for the local Market, or Pot Roast and Taters night, down at the YMCA, goin over to Mt. Pilot for Bingo at the church. This is making a mountian out of a molehill. A 10 person murder spree is not trivial and is not normal anyplace, let alone Sampson, Alabama.[url][/url]


ONE shooter can be taken care of by any police force of ten or more. The problem was that they never had EXPERIENCE with this kind of thing. They weren't prepared, they didn't have the resources on hand, nor did they have the response time when the event happened. That doesn't mean the military should be brought in, all that means is that they need better training and they need the equipment they need to face any kind of REASONABLE threat.

But that isn't what this current article is about. It's about the military being brought in, AGAIN, to the whole of the state of Alabama to secure multiple locations that have possible connections to murders. The state of Alabama has more cops than killers, the cops of Alabama can easily request the tools they need, and the military does NOT need to break the law in order to handle this situation.
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Postby Cole_Trickle » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:26 am

Still chewing, okay a new twist.

Maybe they were deployed not out of fear for public safety, but for fear that the public would take matters into their own hands. ;) ;) If need be!

Lot's and lot's of guns in that area my friends.

Here:~~ resources like all other states, except maybe Wyoming where even the women still carry 45 revolvers. :lol: :lol:

Image

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