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When Alabama Troops Hit The Streets – Illegally?

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Postby Tairaa » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:58 pm

Unfortunately a large amount of your legality is based on things that ought not be. Like all the people getting sued for helping people in accidents and stuff. Around here we have volunteer (but military trained nonetheless) search and rescue operators to look for people on mt Washington, a local ski-snowboarding slope.

People end up stuck or buried in an avalanche because they go beyond the no-go zones. One such couple did this and they looked for them, was able to save one but they weren't fast enough to save the wife, and they were sued. What for? It's obviously not rational or relevant. Their job is to try and save people, it obviously doesn't happen every single time.

For every one person willing to be glad they were there to help, there are just as many screaming about the legality of it all. Knitpicking something irrelevant to what the emergency was.

The same kind of legal system you've got, we've got. The point is: that the law can be used to sue search and rescue operators for saving lives, and the same system will want to also knitpick about something that's not so important like troupes being allowed to help police when the need arises.

The same sort of knitpicking that distracts people from important issues with collectively deciding whether one minority group can live the way they want. It's the same knitpicking, all the way around. The only difference is on the issue in which it's happening.
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Postby Wing-Zero » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:32 pm

Until an official order comes from either the governor or some higher up, it's illegal.
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Postby Tairaa » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:37 pm

That sounds reasonable.. What's the problem with this policy?
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Postby Wing-Zero » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:40 pm

Tairaa wrote:That sounds reasonable.. What's the problem with this policy?


The event at hand, or asking others what might be wrong with my statement?
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Postby Tairaa » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:42 pm

No, I mean... What's wrong with getting the governors permission as a policy. Too me this sounds reasonable, is it difficult to get the governors permission or something. Did they get the governors permission?
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby Wing-Zero » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:50 pm

Tairaa wrote:No, I mean... What's wrong with getting the governors permission as a policy. Too me this sounds reasonable, is it difficult to get the governors permission or something. Did they get the governors permission?


So far, no, they didn't get the governor's permission.

If it's a real emergency that can NOT be handled by the state's police force, then no it isn't hard at all to get the governor's permission.

The problem, as I see it, is that since the people saw the military there last time when that guy went on a killing spree, they immediately turn to the military for help this time.

The military should NOT be used for trivial affairs like this. It should be handled by the police force of said state, and they should be given temporary ability to do what they (reasonably) have to in order to get this situation cleared up.
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Postby greeney2 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:53 pm

The military should NOT be used for trivial affairs like this.


That the point, this was not a trivial affair, and it was an immediate urgency. I don;t know who did it or who answered the call, because those facts are unknown. Alexander Haig was Defence Secretary when Reagon was shot, and in those following moments, The VP was being contacted. Haig was in the White House and immediatley took charge, because the VP was not there, and not yet contacted. He was later admonished by the Congress. It was a fine line to cross, one fine enough to be orderly transfer of power vs. a military overthrow of the government, which we know was not. He was a man faced with an immediate decision, in the face of very unusual circumstances, President shot and possibly dead, and VP unknown. What if, the VP had already been Assasinated, Haig didn't know, all he knew is someone had to steer the boat. It was illegal, but was it the wrong thing to do, for what amounted to less than 20-30 minutes? Or would risking anachy, an overthrow, been better to say, its not my job. Personally I think he should get a medal, but the Congress didn't think so highly of it.

Technically this event in March was probably illegal, but was it wrong, when an overwhelmed police department needed help, and the military gave it. Lives over laws, in a decision that had to be made by whoever took that call, and whoever made it. This was not a trivial event it was a Statewide manhunt for someone who had killed many many people. My guess is those involved maybe didn't even know what the law was, or think about it, they knew they needed to get this shooter.
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Postby greeney2 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:58 pm

Tiarra this has nothing to do with lawsuits or ambulance chasers of the world. The Mother of one of the North Hollywood bank robbers, remember that infamous shoot out, sued the LAPD for wrongful death, becasue they didn't save her boys life, after he was shot. People are nuts when it comes to lawsuits, but this situation has nothing to do with that, or your logic of gay rights issues comparing in anyway to this shooting and the military.
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Postby Wing-Zero » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:12 pm

greeney2 wrote:That the point, this was not a trivial affair, and it was an immediate urgency.


If it can be perfectly handled by the police and the civilian powers that be, such as this, then yes. It is a trivial affair. People getting murdered is nothing new, the military aren't called in every time someone gets shot in LA now do they?

but was it the wrong thing to do, for what amounted to less than 20-30 minutes?


Yes, it was. But I don't disagree with you that SOMEONE needed to "steer the boat".

However, that event and this one are two separate things. No one "in power" in the state of Alabama took the reigns. The president wasn't dead, nukes hadn't been launched, there was never a moment in that time line where someone had to make that split-second decision.

Technically this event in March was probably illegal, but was it wrong, when an overwhelmed police department needed help, and the military gave it.


How exactly were they overwhelmed? The guy was long dead when the military showed up, and everyone had gone back to "business as usual".

Bringing in the military at that point was completely over the top too.
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Postby greeney2 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:19 pm

Nobody knows the context of the calls, since they are blacked out, so we are all guessing. I do not know the timeline of events, when the shooter died, or when they considered everything secure. I think we are all doing some guessing about the events, without knowing the nature of the 6:40 call and those details.

How exactly were they overwhelmed? The guy was long dead when the military showed up, and everyone had gone back to "business as usual".

Bringing in the military at that point was completely over the top too.


What is the timeline of events and what did they know for sure during the 6:40 call? The LAPD was overwhelmed pretty well by 2 shooters, heavily armed, and heavily dressed in protective gear. They were overwhelmed by firepower, and had to goto local gun stores for guns and ammo, for a several hour battle. I don;t know what the situation was with their police being overwhelmed, but someone called for help. I don't see it as "over the top", since there was a statewide mass murder.
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