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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:27 pm

Yes Wing, I'm only trying to give my thoughts of why the religious reasons would be a conflict approving same sex marriage. Many people get married in a legal setting only like city hall. In any religion you have practicing orthodox and moderates, but that still doesn't alter what they know their Religions teach, and most believe these are Gods commands they teach us. Catholic Marriage is a Holy Sacrament, something a lot of people don't understand if they are not Catholics in terms of Sacraments. We have had board arguments about other Sacraments too.

My point is that, if you want tolerance than its a 2 way street. You can not expect people who believe the teaching of their religions are true, that if they believe these things to be sins, you ask them to disobey God. I think its very tolerant to accept civil unions, but not be supporting something that expects or requires those to not follow their own religious freedoms.

Whenever you have a controversail issue, most times it is becasue of the conflicts of 2 separate and individual rights, and if one should prevail over another. Thats the California State Supreme Court decision just made, supporting the right of all Californians to ammend their Constitution, over the rights of a smaller group claiming discrimination. The court found due to the civil unions and other reasons, no civil rights have been violated with Prop 8. The right of the people to ammend the Constituion of California with 50% majoriety was upheld. Now the US Supreme Court will hear the case of if this violates the Federal Constitution. Like the Gore election, they upheld the rights of individual states to govern themselves and would not overturn a Florida State Supreme Court Ruling. Will they do the same thing with this? Time will tell. The US Constitution is also clear about what rights are granted to individual States, and one of them is the right to Govern themselves without interference from the Federal Government.
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Postby Lashmar » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:22 am

Wing-Zero wrote:
greeney2 wrote:Husbands and Wives are giving their Vows before God, with the believe in Gods words concerning Homosexuality, it is a sin. Catholic Marriage is also a Holy Sacramant, that can only be recieved, with a pure heart, meaning Confession with Commuion. Since homosexuality to them is considered a sin, how can the Sacramant marriage be entered into by, by a vow taken for what is considered a sin? You would be asking for absolution of sins, than asking to blessed for another sin, in the eyes of God, according to most teachings. That would be, and probably is the perspective, of any religious reasons for not condoning same sex marriage, it is a desicration of Holy Sacramants, or vows made to God, to regard your Marriage as a Holy Bond.

I'm not putting this up for an argument, only to clarify why Husbands and Wives, have a different meaning to Marriage, from Partners, from a religious standpoint. I think you will find out that most devout religious reasons for not condoning same sex Marriage, are not against civil unions. That does not violate beliefs in the magnitude of Sacraments, and Vows of Marriage before God.


All assuming, of course, that those husbands and wives that are getting married believe in any sort of religion.


Thanks for that G2. :D I can see what all the fuss is about now. For a non-religious person some of the finer details go over my head until they’re pointed out like that. :oops:


You, W-Z, are stealing the words out of my mouth today. :x :lol: :lol:
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Postby Dark-Samus » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:21 am

I'm not putting this up for an argument, only to clarify why Husbands and Wives, have a different meaning to Marriage, from Partners, from a religious standpoint. I think you will find out that most devout religious reasons for not condoning same sex Marriage, are not against civil unions. That does not violate beliefs in the magnitude of Sacraments, and Vows of Marriage before God.


well I understand that, just wondering though where you stand?
To me if we exclude the religious perspective, I think love no matter who it is...HUMANS only...and not human/animal relations... :lol: :roll:
...I think that love is the same just in other forms...
Truth doesn´t control you, you control it...
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Postby greeney2 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:37 am

Where I stand is somewhere in the middle if I must accept civil unions which is legal only, but believe in the meaning of a Sacrament. My stance is that Sacraments are a Holy blessing directly from God, and not up for desecration. You just posted the Church of Sweden making this decision, however in itself it must be a conflict in terms of the meaning of Sacraments. Marriage is not a Sacrament in the Lutheran Church, however Baptism and Communion is. They both are vows to God renouncing Sin, and/or recieving absolution of Sins by recieving Communion. Anyway you cut it, the Lutheran Church or many other none christian Religions regard Homosexuality as a sin at this point, which is where the conflict with recieving and administering Sacraments comes in. These are ordained people, also a Sacrament in the Catholic church.

Since any Marriage involves a Holy ceromony at least, Prayers and Creeds said at them, support those and affirm beliefs, which would conflict totally, if you are told by God this is a sin. It going to take some very sweeping and major turnaround to reinturpet Bible and other passages, concerning what it says regarding homosexuality. So far no major religion has done this or declared any differnent meaning, and universally they beleive these are the true words of God. Gays would like all these Bible things tossed into the trash and regarded as Mear Mans ideas, which initself is a declaration of Atheist, giving no creditials of God to the Bible, and therefore where is Gods existance?
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Postby Tairaa » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:33 pm

Lashmar wrote:
mael wrote:I don't want to change you. "I love you just the way you arrrrrrrrrrrre..." :)


Two things:

One. He is mine. Get off. :x :lol: :lol:

Two. WTF is going on with you? Did one of the girlfriends hit you with a frying pan or something? :lol: :lol: :lol: You seem way to happy. You didn’t insult panda yesterday like you normally do and you didn’t give me the same warning like you normally do. :?

Are you alright? :?


Glass ashtrays work real well for mood altering.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby Tairaa » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:39 pm

Dark-Samus wrote:Yeah she looks like a slutty Snow White... :lol:


Well she's meant to look like snow white.
She's also meant to look hot. Which I think she really nailed.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby Tairaa » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:45 pm

Yes Wing, I'm only trying to give my thoughts of why the religious reasons would be a conflict approving same sex marriage.


I eat meat on Sundays. Or Saturdays or whichever it is.

I am jealous, I am selfish, I am lazy, I over eat. All of which are fatal sins or some such nonsense, I swear. I consume things that alter my state of mind, I undertake in oral sex.

All of which religions typically frown upon.

Wow.

But hey, the good news for me is I don't give a sh*t what religion says, and since I live in a country where I dictate my actions, rather then a guy who thinks he's holier then thou (literally) I'm allowed to perform all of the aforementioned actions unhindered. See my point?
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby Lashmar » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:10 am

Tairaa wrote:Glass ashtrays work real well for mood altering.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dark-Samus wrote:Yeah she looks like a slutty Snow White... :lol:



Well she's meant to look like snow white.
She's also meant to look hot. Which I think she really nailed.


seen better though. Sluttyer and she would have nailed it. ;) :lol: :lol:
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Postby Dark-Samus » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:37 am

Where I stand is somewhere in the middle if I must accept civil unions which is legal only, but believe in the meaning of a Sacrament. My stance is that Sacraments are a Holy blessing directly from God, and not up for desecration. You just posted the Church of Sweden making this decision, however in itself it must be a conflict in terms of the meaning of Sacraments. Marriage is not a Sacrament in the Lutheran Church, however Baptism and Communion is. They both are vows to God renouncing Sin, and/or recieving absolution of Sins by recieving Communion. Anyway you cut it, the Lutheran Church or many other none christian Religions regard Homosexuality as a sin at this point, which is where the conflict with recieving and administering Sacraments comes in. These are ordained people, also a Sacrament in the Catholic church.


Fair enough, although when it comes to the Sweden church...either tey have made some kind of deal between the 2 sides or they are evolving.

Since any Marriage involves a Holy ceromony at least, Prayers and Creeds said at them, support those and affirm beliefs, which would conflict totally, if you are told by God this is a sin. It going to take some very sweeping and major turnaround to reinturpet Bible and other passages, concerning what it says regarding homosexuality. So far no major religion has done this or declared any differnent meaning, and universally they beleive these are the true words of God. Gays would like all these Bible things tossed into the trash and regarded as Mear Mans ideas, which initself is a declaration of Atheist, giving no creditials of God to the Bible, and therefore where is Gods existance?


The funniest thing however is that gays weren´t concider a sin untill the first christians set foot, specially Rome.
And I find it odd that all religious people and according to them that God sees Gays as the biggest sin in the enitre history of this universe.
That like has no logic whether it´s by logical or illogical means...
If people don´t like or accept gays then so be it, however it does not mean they can goon a crusade to exterminate all gays.
I don´t think that´s the right thing to do by the smallest reason, don´t you agree?
This is the reason to why many gays hates religion.
Personally that´s not why I don´t agree with religion, my own reason are different, although my hate towards humans are another thing... :lol:
Truth doesn´t control you, you control it...
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:03 am

I eat meat on Sundays. Or Saturdays or whichever it is.

I am jealous, I am selfish, I am lazy, I over eat. All of which are fatal sins or some such nonsense, I swear. I consume things that alter my state of mind, I undertake in oral sex.


Now say 10 Hail Mary's and 5 Our Father's, and have Communion on Sunday Morning! :lol:

And the your priest needs a cold shower and a few shots! :lol:
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