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Saving Private Ryan

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Postby bionic » Thu May 28, 2009 5:00 pm

"Full Metal Jacket"
is a good one.

All those Vietnam ones...

they are gritty and get to the point of it (most of the old WW2 movies glamourize it all..)

"Saving Private Ryan" is really good, though

Most of our soldiers coming home from the Middle East have head trauma (from all the concusions caused by roadside explosives) and/or PTSD (from..just..well...the severe trauma of battle and war and all that comes with it)

Most of them getting little to no help..
just like 'Nam'

Soldiers..vets..thye should come home and be set up WELL for life
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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Postby Tairaa » Thu May 28, 2009 10:45 pm

Yes they should!

I feel as though I should be a soldier...

Like it's what I was made for.
But we don't treat out soldiers very well.
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Postby rath » Sun May 31, 2009 12:09 pm

Mr_Headshot wrote:A bridge too far ftw

Hey rath, you do realize that the war had been going on for several years before America joined and once we joined the war it was over in a matter of months right?
Sure, the Brits recovered the Enigma, who translated it though.
Are you trying to say America didn't land at Normandy beach in 1944? Do you also deny the Holocaust. I mean, I have a deceased grandparent who fought in Northern Africa and stormed Normandy...

Also, solo'd Japan while fronting Europe. Yep, America was useless alright. I have some 70 year old men who'd kick you into Hiroshima for touting that spew.

P.S. D-Day was WW2


Hey rath, you do realize that the war had been going on for several years before America joined and once we joined the war it was over in a matter of months right?


yours mob are so ignorant.

yes the war war had been going on for several years before America joined however the usa was chickenshiit & would not join the war / both world wars.

the usa only joined in the war/wars after all the hard work had been done by others.

the war didn't end because the usa joined in, rather chickenshiit usa joined in he war/s only after the enemy was already in retreat.

Are you trying to say America didn't land at Normandy beach in 1944?


:roll:
& why do you think D-day worked out in the end?

dont you ever forget .... for even a second, that the only way the usa landed at Normandy on D-day, with ALL THE OTHER NATIONS was because we (the other nations had solders on the ground fighting & blowing up the German cannons & gun posts.


The usa has nothing on the Australian & British contributions in world war 1 & wold war 2.
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Postby Wing-Zero » Sun May 31, 2009 4:21 pm

rath wrote:The usa has nothing on the Australian & British contributions in world war 1 & wold war 2.


You guys were obviously the ones who stopped Japan's offensive, and were the ones who gave Britain enough leeway to finally go ON the offensive, as well as sending at least one million men to decimate the German lines and push them all the way back into their own country, liberated France, and birthed the Atomic bomb, right?
War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life
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Postby rath » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:21 am

Wing-Zero wrote:
rath wrote:The usa has nothing on the Australian & British contributions in world war 1 & wold war 2.


You guys were obviously the ones who stopped Japan's offensive, and were the ones who gave Britain enough leeway to finally go ON the offensive, as well as sending at least one million men to decimate the German lines and push them all the way back into their own country, liberated France, and birthed the Atomic bomb, right?


um ...... wrong again.

First World War, 1914-18 will get to ww2 later.

First World War, 1914-18

Australia entered ww1 from day one in 1914 & before the usa had entered the war in 1918.

Australia had pushed Germany out of, France, Belgium, Italy, Africa & the south pacific.
the Middle East, Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf, Palestine


1 October 1918 - Australian Light Horsemen take Damascus
The Light Horse advances into Damascus, the Syrian capital, at the end of the long and victorious advance that ended the First World War in the Middle East



30 October 1918 - Armistice with Turkey
Armistice signed with Turkey, ending Turkish involvement in the First World War. Australian troops had taken the most prominent part in the war against the Ottoman empire, especially on Gallipoli and in Sinai-Palestine.

31 October 1917 - Beersheba, Palestine
At Beersheba the 4th Light Horse Brigade's bold charge against Turkish positions at Beersheba, seized a critical wells that enabled British empire forces to break the Ottoman line near Gaza and advance into Palestine.


See -Australian & German Battle At
Villers–Bretonneux.
Pozières.
Fromelles.


The Hindenburg Line- the last and strongest of the German army's defence - consisted of three well-defended trench systems, established in 1917. Throughout September 1918, Australian forces had helped the British army to secure positions from which an attack on the Hindenburg Line could be launched. Planning began for a major attack at the end of the month. It was hoped that this attack would finally break the power of the German army.




The Hindenburg Line: Breaking the Hindenburg Line

On 18 September 1918, Australia's preliminary attack was launched when Lieutenant General Sir John Monash's troops reached the first part of the Hindenburg Line. At 5.20 am, Monash's troops, supported by huge artillery barrages, attacked the heavily fortified German defences and machine-gun posts. Using only eight tanks (as well as dummy tanks to distract the Germans), they broke through German positions and took 4,300 prisoners. Although there were 1,000 dead or wounded, this cost was fairly slim compared to the losses of the German forces.
The Second Attack

On 29 September, the line was finally broken. Australian troops spearheaded this battle, given the task of breaking defences in the centre. They attacked a strongly defended sector at Bellicourt with tanks, artillery, and aircraft working in concert. Advances were made, but it was a struggle between the two forces. The fighting lasted four days and resulted in heavy losses.

Gunner J.R. Armitage wrote:

As we went over the ridge we found ourselves in the midst of the most wonderful and impressive battle field scene imaginable. It was a scene never to be forgotten with infantry, tanks, guns, everything in action in a sort of inferno of smoke and shell bursts.

Eventually, the Allies broke through the third and final stage of the Hindenburg Line, and the Germans were forced to fall back. Private Albert Golding wrote after the battle that he and some fellow diggers slept that night in an abandoned German trench and ate a hearty breakfast from hastily abandoned German supplies!


In this attack, troops captured the entrance to the St Quentin canal tunnel. Inside was a kitchen where German bodies were found – one of them in a cooking cauldron. There were wild claims that the enemy was boiling down the dead, and this was exploited by the allies’ propaganda system. Anti-German sentiment was so strong that it was widely believed. An investigation soon proved that, during the fighting, a shell had exploded in an improvised kitchen, killing the unfortunate Germans and throwing one into a pot.

An attack on 5 October The Australian last brigade fought and took Montbrehain village, and with that, the Hindenburg Line was completely broken.

By this time, most Australian troops had been fighting for six months without a break, 11 out of 60 battalions were disbanded because there were so few men left in them, and 27,000 men had been killed or wounded since the Battle of Amiens. The troops were worn and war weary.

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http://www.ww1westernfront.gov.au/battlefields.html



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Australian VC Corner Cemetery - Fromelles



When the Australian Army came to France, the French people expected a great deal of you … We knew that you would fight a real fight, but we did not know that from the beginning you would astonish the whole continent … I shall go back tomorrow and say to my countrymen: ‘I have seen the Australians. I have looked into their faces. I know that these men … will fight alongside us again until the cause for which we are all fighting is safe for us and our children. - French Prime Minister, Georges Clemenceau, 1918



http://www.awmlondon.gov.au/

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Postby Lashmar » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:28 am

Australia entered ww1 from day one in 1914 & before the usa had entered the war in 1918.


Lie.

The Great War started in April and then in august/ (October I’m not sure) Britain and her dominions started.

But I see where you were coming from and I agree with you, I really don’t like hearing the yanks go on about The Great War. They missed most of it, in turn why do they think they have this right to act as if the were there for all of it. :x

It’s disgracing the memories of all that fought before they joint. :x
Read between the lies
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Postby Tairaa » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:09 am

Perhaps for the first world war, but despite the US's late entry to WWII, they did have a heavy impact on it.

AFterall, they had been left to their own designs which allowed them to build up their military, whereas everyone else had already been fighting for a few years and as a result where kind of running low on things like factories for producing armour, aircraft, weapons, fuel. Modes of transport where destroyed, railroads, regular roads, bridges etc. NUmbers of operation aircraft and armour dwindled, as did the number of skilled practitioners of fighter planes.

The US had zero factories bombed, had all of their roads, all of their railroads, bridges, fuel production hadn't faltered, they had a very safe area to train their infantry, artillery, flight crews, and naval personnel.

So every part of their war machine operated unhindered, unlike all the rest. They came in with numbers, skill, and coordination as a result.

Then to top it all off they relatively single handedly ended the war with the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Even IF the Germans where still in a position to be able to fight more, they would have had to surrender within a month, as this would be far more then sufficient time for the US to transport, and deploy other nuclear weapons on them, at which point in time unless they had their own they would either have to win or lose in a few weeks time. Since victory wasn't possible within a one or two week timeframe, they would have had to surrender or be destroyed.
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Postby rath » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:11 am

Lashmar wrote:
Australia entered ww1 from day one in 1914 & before the usa had entered the war in 1918.


Lie.

The Great War started in April and then in august/ (October I’m not sure) Britain and her dominions started.

But I see where you were coming from and I agree with you, I really don’t like hearing the yanks go on about The Great War. They missed most of it, in turn why do they think they have this right to act as if the were there for all of it. :x

It’s disgracing the memories of all that fought before they joint. :x



ill get back 2 u.

im half way through this stll.

you people re to dame fast with the posts.
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Postby rath » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:11 am

You guys were obviously the ones who stopped Japan's offensive, and were the ones who gave Britain enough leeway to finally go ON the offensive, as well as sending at least one million men to decimate the German lines and push them all the way back into their own country, liberated France, and birthed the Atomic bomb, right?


yes that's true.



But don't think that D-day just happened either.


Everybody happened to turn up at the same place & at the same time. ( just lucky )



Australia & World war 2.

It would be nice if you all looked into it yourselves.


Second World War, 1939–45

over a million + Australians, both men and women, served in the Second World War.

Australia fought in campaigns against Germany and Italy in Europe, the Mediterranean and North Africa, as well as against Japan in south-east Asia and other parts of the Pacific, such as Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, Malaya.

Greece, Crete and Lebanon & Syria

Tunisia, Sicily and Italy.

Netherlands East Indies and Rabaul
The Australian mainland came under direct attack for the first time, as Japanese aircraft bombed towns in north-west Australia and Japanese midget submarines attacked Sydney Harbour.

The Royal Australian Navy (RAN) participated in operations against Italy after its entry into the war in June 1940. A few Australians flew in the Battle of Britain in August and September, but the Australian army was not engaged in combat until 1941, when the 6th, 7th, and 9th Divisions joined Allied operations in the Mediterranean and North Africa.


Following early successes against Italian forces, the Australians suffered defeat with the Allies at the hands of the Germans in Greece, Crete, and North Africa.

In June and July 1941 Australians participated in the successful invasion of Syria, a mandate of France and the Vichy government.
Up to 14,000 Australians held out against repeated German attacks in the Libyan port of Tobruk, where they were besieged between April and August 1941.

After being relieved at Tobruk, the 6th and 7th Divisions departed from the Mediterranean theatre for the war against Japan. The 9th Division remained to play an important role in the Allied victory at El Alamein in October 1942 before it also left for the Pacific.

Japan entered the war in December 1941 and swiftly achieved a series of victories, resulting in the occupation of most of south-east Asia and large areas of the Pacific by the end of March 1942. Singapore fell in February, with the loss of an entire Australian division. After the bombing of Darwin that same month, all RAN ships in the Mediterranean theatre, as well as the 6th and 7th Divisions, returned to defend Australia. In response to the heightened threat, the Australian government also expanded the army and air force and called for an overhaul of economic, domestic, and industrial policies to give the government special authority to mount a total war effort at home.

In March 1942, after the defeat of the Netherlands East Indies, Japan's southward advance began to lose strength, easing fears of an imminent invasion of Australia. Further relief came when the first AIF veterans of the Mediterranean campaigns began to come home, and when the United States assumed responsibility for the country's defence, providing reinforcements and equipment. The threat of invasion receded further as the Allies won a series of decisive battles: in the Coral Sea, at Midway, on Imita Ridge and the Kokoda Trail, and at Milne Bay and Buna.

Further Allied victories against the Japanese followed in 1943. Australian troops were mainly engaged in land battles in New Guinea, the defeat of the Japanese at Wau, and clearing Japanese soldiers from the Huon peninsula. This was Australia's largest and most complex offensive of the war and was not completed until April 1944. The Australian army also began a new series of campaigns in 1944 against isolated Japanese garrisons stretching from Borneo to Bougainville, involving more Australian troops than at any other time in the war. The first of these campaigns was fought on Bougainville and New Britain, and at Aitape, New Guinea. The final series of campaigns were fought in Borneo in 1945. How necessary these final campaigns were for Allied victory remains the subject of continuing debate. Australian troops were still fighting in Borneo when the war ended in August 1945.

While Australia's major effort from 1942 onwards was directed at defeating Japan, thousands of Australians continued to serve with the RAAF in Europe and the Middle East. Athough more Australian airmen fought against the Japanese, losses among those flying against Germany were far higher. Australians were particularly prominent in Bomber Command's offensive against occupied Europe. Some 3,500 Australians were killed in this campaign, making it the costliest of the war.

Over 30,000 Australian servicemen were taken prisoner in the Second World War and 39,000 gave their lives. Two-thirds of those taken prisoner were captured by the Japanese during their advance through south-east Asia in the first weeks of 1942. While those who became prisoners of the Germans had a strong chance of returning home at the end of the war, 36 per cent of prisoners of the Japanese died in captivity.

Nurses had gone overseas with the AIF in 1940. However, during the early years of the war women were generally unable to make a significant contribution to the war effort in any official capacity. Labour shortages forced the government to allow women to take a more active role in war work and, in February 1941, the RAAF received cabinet approval to establish the Women's Auxiliary Australian Air Force (WAAAF). At the same time, the navy also began employing female telegraphists, a breakthrough that eventually led to the establishment of the Women's Royal Australian Naval Service (WRANS) in 1942. The Australian Women's Army Service (AWAS) was established in October 1941, with the aim of releasing men from certain military duties in base units in Australia for assignment with fighting units overseas. Outside the armed services, the Women's Land Army (WLA) was established to encourage women to work in rural industries. Other women in urban areas took up employment in industries, such as munitions production.
http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/



When the Australian Army came to France, the French people expected a great deal of you … We knew that you would fight a real fight, but we did not know that from the beginning you would astonish the whole continent … I shall go back tomorrow and say to my countrymen: ‘I have seen the Australians. I have looked into their faces. I know that these men … will fight alongside us again until the cause for which we are all fighting is safe for us and our children. - French Prime Minister, Georges Clemenceau, 1918




http://www.awmlondon.gov.au/

http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/thismonth/index.asp
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Postby rath » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:12 am

The Beginnings of World War 1 1915

The Crises of 1914 Part II








March the First, 1915, would go down in history as the date which brought on the conflict, later to be called, the Great War. The Great War had, in fact, almost commenced in Europe in the previous year, but frantic attempts of diplomacy, wise decisions by German generals, not to mention convenient disobedience of orders, had isolated the Austro-Serbian war to merely Serbian territory. The European nations, except for France, were satisfied with their various diplomatic achievements & believed that a European war had been diverted. They were wrong.

The beginning of 1915 indicated no hint whatsoever in how the year would end. The Austro-Serbian war had become quiet after the Christmas battles, & apart from a few border skirmishes, little activity took place during the winter of the New Year period. Although negotiations took place between the two combatants, none of the attempts were serious. Instead, both sides had spent the time readying their respective armies for spring campaigns.

The Austrians trained & recruited more troops as did the Serbians. Meanwhile, the Russians were able to smuggle armaments to the Serbs. The Austrians, on the other hand, had to fend for themselves. Their allies, the Germans, were still fuming over the fact that the Austrians had gotten involved in a conflict without any consideration as to their part. Furthermore, a militant Austria, one trying to gain in power & territory via conquest, was not ideally what Germany wanted. Within living memory, both empires were once at war as Prussia went about alienating Austria while uniting the rest of Germany. The last thing the German government thus wanted was a powerful Austria; one which was capable of undoing all of Prussia’s hard work.

Yet this somewhat international balancing act would suddenly change due to the actions of a small British Dominion in the South Pacific. Australia, a small country by population standards, had only recently become a nation in 1901. Its existence up to that date, as an outpost of the British Empire, had only come about as a convenient penal colony in 1788. Prior to that, it was a continent which was owned by the Aboriginals, whose culture & society had little in common with that of Europe. Yet, within 140 years, this country’s actions would hasten on the Great War.

The island of New Guinea, located north of Australia, had seen little European activity over the years. As Australia was taken by the British & later developed, nearly one hundred years would go by before anyone took any interest in New Guinea. But spurred on by empire building, this would soon change.

Accompanying empire building, Australians have long harboured a tradition of invasion paranoia, one which their governments over the years had in abundance. From the beginning, in 1788, it was feared that the French would invade. Next came the Chinese. Then the Russians. After the American Civil War, it was feared that the Americans, now employing a powerful navy & army, would try to conquer Australia as pay-back to the British by establishing a Untied States of Australia. After no American invasion took place, & with the Dutch now firmly established throughout the Indonesian Archipelago, naturally the Dutch were then feared. Next in line, with the reforms delivering the fruits from modernisation & European influence (especially British), Japan was seen as the next potential invader & became known as the "yellow peril". Finally, with the Germans sniffing around the Asia-Pacific region, the Germans likewise joined this list of paranoid delusions.

So when the Dutch began taking an interest in the western half of New Guinea &, if that was not bad enough, the Germans began taking an interest in the eastern half not long afterwards, for the northern Australian colony of Queensland, this was far too much. Fearing a future German or Dutch invasion, the Governor of Queensland Henry Chester, in April 1883, announced that the eastern half of New Guinea was now part of Queensland. The decision, taken without any arrangements with the British, was cheered on by Australians, but was greatly frowned upon by Westminster. The Australian colonies were not even 100 years old & already they had commenced empire building themselves. To everyone it was politics. To the Australians it meant that they were coming of age. To the British it meant their authority was being challenged by a small colony. Furthermore, there were possible international repercussions from Europe or America.

By July 1883 the British ordered the Queenslanders out of the island. At first the Queensland government refused, but after lengthy negotiations, the British agreed that for Queensland’s withdrawal, Britain would declare New Guinea as a protectorate. A disgruntled Queensland government was forced to accept this situation as their original reason for annexation, that being a German takeover, was negated by the promised British presence.

Unfortunately for the Queenslanders, the Germans more or less ignored the British protectorate & in September of 1883 took possession of the northern coast of New Guinea. The Queenslanders would never trust the British in New Guinea again & this event would also help to hasten on the Australian Commonwealth & nationhood. The immediate result, however, was the return of Queensland’s small army to the southern coastline of New Guinea. Well established in the south by 1889, the Queensland government refused all requests by the British to withdrawal, citing that the Germans refused to leave the north. Thus the battlelines were set for the future.

Upon Australia becoming a nation in 1901, the paranoia of the past would govern Australia’s foreign policy up until 1915. Further evidence of German expansion by military conquest came in the form of the German Pacific Naval squadron being permanently stationed in the South Pacific. Although it was nothing in the overall scheme of things, it was enough for the Australian government to order the latest naval vessels from Britain. By 1913, Australia had assembled the most powerful fleet, except for the Japanese, in the region which included a battle cruiser as well as several cruisers & destroyers.

The decision in 1915, by Australia’s Prime Minister Billy Hughes, to invade German New Guinea also had other factors. Coupled with the need for a powerful modern navy were improvements in the army. This was built upon the great experience of Australia’s army during the Boer War. This inturn, fuelled the paranoia in Australia, as Germany, under Kaiser Wilhelm II, had expressed his full support for the Boers. If war was ever to start, as a result of the Boer War between Britain & Germany, Australia would discover very quickly that it was on the front lines by default.

Another aspect to Australia’s consideration, one that has been much overlooked, was trade. Australia wanted the trade of the South Pacific to itself. The only consideration about sharing the trade within the region was given to New Zealand: another British dominion in the South Pacific & one thought to be a de facto state of the Australian Commonwealth. However, far more important than trade was gold. Not only was it discovered in abundance in Australia/British New Guinea, but it was also discovered in German New Guinea.

Thus for a whole range of reasons, Prime Minister Hughes, confident that the military forces would defeat the Germans, ordered them to invade German New Guinea on 1 March 1915. The invasion was extremely successful. Somewhat ridiculously, no one in Australia, however, believed that Germany would go to war over the issue. Noting that Germany had backed down the previous year, in a major way, during the crises in Europe over bigger events, the Australian government wrongly believed that Germany would take even less interest in losing a small colony on the other side of the world.

The Germans, naturally, were outraged. They immediately demanded to the British that their colonials evacuate German New Guinea & pay reparations. Britain too was furious at the Australians & quietly demanded that they return the territory invaded back to its rightful owners. This the Australians refused & citied the usual paranoia about an beating back a mythical immediate German invasion of Australia/British New Guinea. The Germans, after noting the ominous silence on behalf of the British, soon raised the spectre of war.

Once again Europe was in crisis. As the Austro-Serbia conflict now disappeared to the sidelines, now it appeared that Britain & Germany were going head to head. The French, noting a chance to gain at the expense of the Germans immediately threw their lot in with the British. Although no defence treaty per se existed between Britain & France, this was soon ratified. As the deadline for the Australian withdrawal drew close, the Royal Navy Grand Fleet went to sea. In response so too did the German High Seas Fleet.

In a similar fashion, the French army mobilised upon hearing the news that the High Seas Fleet had sortied. Naturally the Germans quickly responded. It the relief of Germany, but to the annoyance of France, Russia declared neutrality over these events. Russia was more interested in seeing Germany & the others distracted while she inturn watched the Austro-Serbian war. If & when the moment raised, then Russia would act by joining the Serbs. Not only would this catch Austria off balance, ensuring territorial gain at the expense of the Austrians, but it would mean that Russia would live up to its image of defender of Slavic Peoples.

But before anything eventful took place in Europe, it was the Australians who once again got involved. As troop ships were being convoyed by the Royal Australian Navy, in order to invade other German colonies on islands to the north of New Guinea, the German cruiser Emden deliberately manoeuvred into a threatening position trying to halt the invasion force. This was seen as an act of war on behalf of the Royal Australian Navy ships & HMAS Sydney, several times more powerful than the Emden, gave battle sinking the German ship. News of the naval encounter spread rapidly around the world. So do did the German response - the declaration of war on 30 March 1915.

Battle almost commenced at once in Europe. Although nothing large at first, the Royal Navy & the German Navy skirmished throughout the North Sea. Both sides, though, could sense a major sea battle would soon take place. They were not to be disappointed. On 31 May 1916, the largest sea battle ever to take place in history did so at Jutland. Even though the Royal Navy lost more ships, the High Seas Fleet retreated in disarray never to venture into another major naval battle ever again. Instead the Germans commenced U-Boat attacks for the next four years that almost won the war for them.

On land it was a similar story. The French & German armies skirmished with one another until the French put Plan XVII into action. This plan called for the liberation of the provinces of Lorraine & Alsace, which were both taken by Germany after the 1870 war. Alas, through inept French generalship & a well organised German defence, Plan XVII proved to be a useless offensive which cost the life of many a Frenchman. In response, the Germans unleashed their almost successful Schlieffen Plan. It was only stopped, however, by the heroic defence of the French & British armies.

Four years would go by before Germany & Austria surrendered. In that time, almost the entire world, including the United States & Russia, were to be sucked into the vortex of battle. Millions of people, including civilians, would die during the war. Furthermore, the world would change forever. Alas the lessons from the horrors of the Great War were not listened to. Instead an even bigger war would return within a generation. In the meantime, Australia would keep its conquests of German colonies while avoiding much of the blame for starting the Great War. Instead, as the war historian A.J.P. Taylor wrote, it was to be a war which was bound to happen.

http://www.geocities.com/marcuswest/1915.html
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