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Postby Wing-Zero » Thu May 28, 2009 6:30 pm

greeney2 wrote:Sorry Wing, but the bulk of this conversation has been because of the attitude coming out of a country declared neutral, that still benifited from the deaths of millions, and has the nerve to disparage their memory. This was about who we honor on Memorial Day, and Europe lost millions of lives in the process.


I would expect some level of gratitude and compassion from the citizens of a country that knew they were being saved eventual occupation, if Hitler would have won WW2. Just like the term collateral damage is used, there should be a term called collateral benifit, meaning when every other occupied country was liberated, Neutral countries knew they never could be occupied. But who paid for it in blood and deaths. Everybody else!


What are you talking about?

It's ONE Swede who's acting in a way that irritates you. The idea that his thoughts reflect the rest of the people in his country is completely ignorant.

Also, the Soviet Union would have gotten to Sweden before the Germans did.
War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

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Postby greeney2 » Thu May 28, 2009 7:06 pm

What saved Sweden from invasion from Germany was the fact they declared themselves neutral, and they also made concessions with Hitler. That is history. Remaining neutral ment they would not change existing commerce, and a big key to Germany was their crucial demand for Swedish iron ore. One thing we know is Swedish Steel was, and still is, considered some of the finest, and Germany needed it badly for their Aircraft. Had they not done this, Germany certainly would have invaded Sweden if nessesary just to get that ore. Sweden also made concessions with the allies, but Chruchill considered Sweden a cowardly country in WW2. Sweden not only benitifed from the results of the Allies defeating the Nazi rechime, they profited by selling iron ore to Nazi Germany during the war.

You are right about one thing Wing, Satorus does not represent all Swedish people or Sweden, but the fact is I'm sure many European countries do not have much respect for Sweden, and probably not their people.
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Postby Wing-Zero » Thu May 28, 2009 7:52 pm

greeney2 wrote:What saved Sweden from invasion from Germany was the fact they declared themselves neutral, and they also made concessions with Hitler. That is history. Remaining neutral ment they would not change existing commerce, and a big key to Germany was their crucial demand for Swedish iron ore. One thing we know is Swedish Steel was, and still is, considered some of the finest, and Germany needed it badly for their Aircraft. Had they not done this, Germany certainly would have invaded Sweden if nessesary just to get that ore. Sweden also made concessions with the allies, but Chruchill considered Sweden a cowardly country in WW2. Sweden not only benitifed from the results of the Allies defeating the Nazi rechime, they profited by selling iron ore to Nazi Germany during the war.

You are right about one thing Wing, Satorus does not represent all Swedish people or Sweden, but the fact is I'm sure many European countries do not have much respect for Sweden, and probably not their people.


At least you got one of the things I was trying to get acrossed.

You do know that Sweden sold to both Germany AND Britain during the course of their fighting, right? You also know that they ordered about 300 fighters from us, but we went back on the deal when we only delievered about 100, so they were forced to buy from the only other place that could spare them, Germany. It was doing what it had to do as a neutral nation to survive. Germany had a stranglehold on Denmark and Norway, and Sweden believed that Britain did not have the capability to fight Germany off by itself. It had to sell to any and all just to keep the people in its own borders alive and fed.

But the fact still remains, had the Japanese not attacked us we would have not had anything to do with that war. The most we would have done would have been selling arms to Britain and giving Japan the cold shoulder by cutting off their oil and steel allowance.

Sweden was JUST like us before December 7th, 1941. It put its own countrymen as priority number one and decided that they'd be better off if they weren't involved.
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Postby Tairaa » Thu May 28, 2009 11:01 pm

Sorry Wing, but the bulk of this conversation has been because of the attitude coming out of a country declared neutral,


GREENEY! WTF, ARE YOU SERIOUS? :shock:

WTF does his nationality have to do with ANYTHING when he doesn't stand by the actions his country made?

Are you a slave owner? Did you kill Natives to settle the land you live on? No. Should you be judged and generalized on based off of those actions? What if he was German, would his opinion be completely invalid because of his nationality?
In this instance I think you're the one being entirely irrational. You've not been comprehending very well what Saturos has been saying here. Making a lot of assumptions based on a twisted accounting (and also assumption) of his own opinions.

Is every soldier a good person? Is every soldier a hero?

No. obviously.

CLEARLY.

How often are there rapes and murders of civilians from soldiers? Hmm?

So, by way of logic we come to the conclusion, that the people who do these things, regardless of them being soldiers, are not heroes and they are good men. Take a deep breathe. This might be a hard topic, but you're reading what isn't there in order to respond in a hostile manor.
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Postby Lashmar » Fri May 29, 2009 1:46 am

greeney2 wrote:You are right about one thing Wing, Satorus does not represent all Swedish people or Sweden, but the fact is I'm sure many European countries do not have much respect for Sweden, and probably not their people.


I've never really thought about them to be fair. :?
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Postby Lashmar » Fri May 29, 2009 1:58 am

Tairaa wrote:What if he was German, would his opinion be completely invalid because of his nationality?


You’ve kind of pointed out what I was going to. :x

What if his parents were Germans?

You don’t realize it but there could be another Hitler along the way. The BNP (British National/Nazi Party) are gaining strength quickly. I don’t think we have anything to worry about yet but if something bad was to crop up then I think they could have a realistic hope of getting into power.
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Postby greeney2 » Fri May 29, 2009 8:16 am

Is every soldier a good person? Is every soldier a hero?


Every soldier buried in Normandy is definatly a Hero to me.
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Postby Lashmar » Fri May 29, 2009 8:21 am

Hero’s are extraordinarily brave men not just men following orders. Normandy is one of the few time that the men following orders are heroes as well.

Same for the Somme and Passchendaele. Now they were brave men.
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Postby Tairaa » Fri May 29, 2009 3:05 pm

I agree Greeney.

But that changes nothing in the long scheme of things.

The invasion of Normandy.. The soldiers who fought and fell are heroes. In fact, most if not all of the WWII soldiers where heroes. Even in a questionable war, such as Vietnam or Iraq you can still have heroes. Orders are orders, it's not a soldiers decision to fight in Iraq, if he's in the army and gets shipped out he has to fight.

Ones actions are what makes one a hero.
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Postby BloodStone » Fri May 29, 2009 5:36 pm

Even in a questionable war, such as Vietnam or Iraq you can still have heroes. Orders are orders, it's not a soldiers decision to fight in Iraq, if he's in the army and gets shipped out he has to fight.

Ones actions are what makes one a hero.



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