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What If God Disappeared?

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Postby Lashmar » Fri May 22, 2009 9:06 am

:lol:
Read between the lies
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Postby Questioner101 » Fri May 22, 2009 12:45 pm

View first unread post What If God Disappeared?


He/She has to appear first.
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Postby event_horizon » Fri May 22, 2009 1:54 pm

starman wrote:
event_horizon wrote:

The only thing I believe that has no beginning and no end is higher-dimensional space, or "hyperspace" -- a realm that may theoretically exist beyond or in-between universes.



I agree with you on this one e_h. In Stephen Hawking's A Briefer History of Time (the updated version of his initial A Brief History of Time) he writes that if the initial boundary conditions of the universe occur in a singularity where the laws of physics break down, there is no way we can know how it began. Something outside of the universe would have to initiate the beginning. But he counteracts this with his no-boundary theory. This theory states that time has no beginning and no end. The theory is an extension of the development of Richard Feynman's A Sum of Histories and Imaginary Time. A model of the universe which has no beginning and no end. He also mentions God. He writes:"the possibility that space-time was finite but had no boundary, which means that it had no beginning, no moment of creation, has profound implications for the role of God in the affairs of the universe. So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end, it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?" A universe without beginning or end, strictly governed by the laws of science and physics.

Hawking writes: "If we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable to everyone, not just a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason---for then we would know the mind of God."


I think because of the simple fact that space-time is expanding, it must be finite and it must have had a beginning. If it had no beginning and no end then it would already encompass everything that exists, and thus would be static.

The laws of our physics break down at the singularity.

I think most of us believe the universe couldn't have come into existence from absolutely nothing (no space/no energy). Some sort of energy had to exist. And for energy to have existed, it must have had space to exist in. But how could anything at all interact, to create matter, in an infinite three-dimensional void? Hyperspace is the only theoretical realm where quantum particles (energy) can jump into one another (thus interaction can occur). And hyperspace doesn't expand, since it has always been there, eternally. This is why I believe hyperspace (or higher-dimensional space) has no beginning and no end.

One hint that our univserse is probably embedded in higher-dimensional space is "quantum entanglement" -- quantum particles interacting over astronomical distances instantaneously.
I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what logic and reason cause me to believe. All I want is to live with the truth -- nothing more, nothing less.
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Postby event_horizon » Fri May 22, 2009 1:56 pm

Lashmar wrote:I think it’s pointless trying to decipher Saturos. ;) :)


Tell me about it. I don't think HE can decipher his own self.
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Postby Wing-Zero » Fri May 22, 2009 2:32 pm

Lashmar wrote:
Wing-Zero wrote:
Questioner101 wrote:If god disappeared, maybe humans would progress from myth dribbling nutters, into gods themselves...without the need for crutches.


Or clothes.

Gods don't need clothes.


Gods all look good as well. A world of sexy naked people (only women), sign me up. :lol:


Fixed for more beneficial scenario, and seconded.
War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

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Postby starman » Fri May 22, 2009 8:02 pm

event_horizon wrote:
starman wrote:
event_horizon wrote:

The only thing I believe that has no beginning and no end is higher-dimensional space, or "hyperspace" -- a realm that may theoretically exist beyond or in-between universes.



I agree with you on this one e_h. In Stephen Hawking's A Briefer History of Time (the updated version of his initial A Brief History of Time) he writes that if the initial boundary conditions of the universe occur in a singularity where the laws of physics break down, there is no way we can know how it began. Something outside of the universe would have to initiate the beginning. But he counteracts this with his no-boundary theory. This theory states that time has no beginning and no end. The theory is an extension of the development of Richard Feynman's A Sum of Histories and Imaginary Time. A model of the universe which has no beginning and no end. He also mentions God. He writes:"the possibility that space-time was finite but had no boundary, which means that it had no beginning, no moment of creation, has profound implications for the role of God in the affairs of the universe. So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end, it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?" A universe without beginning or end, strictly governed by the laws of science and physics.

Hawking writes: "If we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable to everyone, not just a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason---for then we would know the mind of God."


I think because of the simple fact that space-time is expanding, it must be finite and it must have had a beginning. If it had no beginning and no end then it would already encompass everything that exists, and thus would be static.

The laws of our physics break down at the singularity.

I think most of us believe the universe couldn't have come into existence from absolutely nothing (no space/no energy). Some sort of energy had to exist. And for energy to have existed, it must have had space to exist in. But how could anything at all interact, to create matter, in an infinite three-dimensional void? Hyperspace is the only theoretical realm where quantum particles (energy) can jump into one another (thus interaction can occur). And hyperspace doesn't expand, since it has always been there, eternally. This is why I believe hyperspace (or higher-dimensional space) has no beginning and no end.

One hint that our univserse is probably embedded in higher-dimensional space is "quantum entanglement" -- quantum particles interacting over astronomical distances instantaneously.


Don't have much time. So something to think about. I think we are pretty much on the same page. This hyperspace you speak of is the fourth dimension, time I believe. Not the clock time we are familiar with, but imaginary time. Which, btw, isn't really imaginary at all. It got this name from Feynman. He called it this I think because he didn't believe anyone could comprehend it. Anyway this imaginary time has always existed. This is the fourth dimension. With four dimensions we get hyperspace! Here is where time has no beginning or end. Here, the laws of science and physics rule. Think of the big bang as a point at the south pole of the earth. From there it expands toward the north pole. Now we have a 3 dimensional universe expanding within hyperspace with no boundary. Not sure I explained correctly, but maybe you get the picture. Gotta go.
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Postby event_horizon » Sat May 23, 2009 2:42 pm

Hyperspace is a fourth spatial dimension, not temporal. But yeah, you can think of the universe as a sphere, which has no boundary. However, hyperspace has always been there, prior to our unvierse existing, and that which the universe is expanding into.
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Postby starman » Tue May 26, 2009 9:10 am

Questioner101 wrote:
View first unread post What If God Disappeared?


He/She has to appear first.


Then I shall rephrase the question. To all believers, what if God disappeared? ;)
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Postby starman » Tue May 26, 2009 10:07 am

event_horizon wrote:Hyperspace is a fourth spatial dimension, not temporal. But yeah, you can think of the universe as a sphere, which has no boundary. However, hyperspace has always been there, prior to our unvierse existing, and that which the universe is expanding into.


By using this so-called imaginary time, physicists Stephen Hawking and Jim Hartle showed that the universe could have been born without a singularity. Would you agree or disagree with this conceptional model of how the universe began? The standard model of the Big Bang singularity, where the laws of physics break down, requires something to initiate the process, thereby leaving the idea that God was the possible initiator. The imaginary time model eliminates this possibility and the Big Bang acts as any other point in spacetime.
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Postby Questioner101 » Thu May 28, 2009 10:11 am

Physics is just advanced math puzzles....dreamed up by Physicists....then scientists have to design tests to "prove" the theories....constantly being watched by electrons....protons and neutrons....and the "conscious" Universe.
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