The Black Vault

Whatever you do, just try not to miss the target....which isn't possible w/out a little help.

I suppose my main point was that there is a difference...a stark one...between "true" sin, and what the "church" deems sin from their laundry list of various things....all sin boils down to very simple concepts.

Does someone who breaks a govt law, sin? I say no, not necessarily....because man's law is not Gods law....true the two may intersect at certain points such as murder, theft, etc...but on other areas I think you aren't necessarily sinning just because you break a human law.

For instance, I think it silly to say certain things are sin...such as, "cursing" (that one is tres ridiculous), drinking, smoking....and a whole host of other things that do not involve how one treats their fellow man....yet in a bid to control personal behavior the church has made these things "sin", and laid the guilt trip on thick.

Blocking yourself from virtue is a sin.

screamzero wrote:Blocking yourself from virtue is a sin.

hmm well, i can mostly agree with that.

fortwynt wrote:I suppose my main point was that there is a difference...a stark one...between "true" sin, and what the "church" deems sin from their laundry list of various things....all sin boils down to very simple concepts.

Does someone who breaks a govt law, sin? I say no, not necessarily....because man's law is not Gods law....true the two may intersect at certain points such as murder, theft, etc...but on other areas I think you aren't necessarily sinning just because you break a human law.

For instance, I think it silly to say certain things are sin...such as, "cursing" (that one is tres ridiculous), drinking, smoking....and a whole host of other things that do not involve how one treats their fellow man....yet in a bid to control personal behavior the church has made these things "sin", and laid the guilt trip on thick.

You got that right on the nose. And pretty much the whole reason why what man considers sin being irrelevant. If one does believe in a higher being that is watching over us, why does what man says really matter.

So I take it as doing the best that I can to love/take care of my wife and children, as they are my only priorty in life and meet that higher being, if there be one, when the time comes. Cause honestly, everyone wants to say "god" is speaking through them. So rather than sift through all the dirt to find one little speckle of glass, I just ignore it all and deal with it when the time comes.

I would say you are right, except for one thing...if you are living a life where you are forgiving others, meek in spirit, charitable to those less fortunate than yourself, etc...you are already speaking with the voice of God...it doesnt need to be a profound lightning bolt from heaven...it is far more mundane and simple than that....if you are living right, according to valid and logical spiritual princples, you are already living by the will of God and speaking with the authority of such....

my only problem with what you have said, that i could possibly come up with, is that it is very important to do good unto others, not necessarily just your loved ones....for it is easy enough to love those who love you already....even the wicked can do this....the hard thing is to do good to strangers, and *gasp* those who curse you and despitefully use you....that is the true test of how Godly someone is living.....not what church you go to, or how many hail marys you say, or how nice you dress, or how many bible quotes you can remember, or etc etc etc.....i would say you dont even have to go to church, or even READ the bible, or *gasp* even KNOW about jesus, if one is merely doing unto others as you'd have them do unto you (or more accurately, do NOT unto others as you'd NOT have them do unto you)....then you are already living a pure life.

I try to be good to all, yes. It's not that I don't care about others at all, but if someone doesn't like me for some reason, what religion I am or not, that I enjoy alcohol, dated a black woman, whatever, then I am not going to get bent out of shape trying to please them. Some people look to be offended and they thrive on it. It's their spark or their relevance in life. These are the people (like my parents) that have some hope in me that I will turn my life around and "find" god again. The problem is, it's their perception of what they believe god expects out of me, not what god might actually expect out of me. Again, if he even cares.

As far as what you said about living a good life and being good to others as you would want them to do to you, is speaking through god, I guess it's my past dealings with religion that have turned me a bitter person to want to even be associated with god, much less man's religion.

If I do ever change. If. I am more of the line of thought that you said about it's not so much what people see you do, but what you are really doing. It's not about show, it's about what is really in your heart. So if god is watching me, and can forgive my bitterness, and I want him to, then I have a good feeling that I am alright with him.

Excellently stated my friend.