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Is the Price of Chemotherapy Worth it?

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Postby Nesaie » Wed May 20, 2009 11:27 pm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15630849

Morgan G, Ward R, Barton M.

Department of Radiation Oncology, Northern Sydney Cancer Centre, Royal North Shore Hospital, Sydney, NSW, Australia. gmorgan1@bigpond.net.au

AIMS: The debate on the funding and availability of cytotoxic drugs raises questions about the contribution of curative or adjuvant cytotoxic chemotherapy to survival in adult cancer patients. MATERIALS AND METHODS: We undertook a literature search for randomised clinical trials reporting a 5-year survival benefit attributable solely to cytotoxic chemotherapy in adult malignancies. The total number of newly diagnosed cancer patients for 22 major adult malignancies was determined from cancer registry data in Australia and from the Surveillance Epidemiology and End Results data in the USA for 1998. For each malignancy, the absolute number to benefit was the product of (a) the total number of persons with that malignancy; (b) the proportion or subgroup(s) of that malignancy showing a benefit; and (c) the percentage increase in 5-year survival due solely to cytotoxic chemotherapy. The overall contribution was the sum total of the absolute numbers showing a 5-year survival benefit expressed as a percentage of the total number for the 22 malignancies. RESULTS: The overall contribution of curative and adjuvant cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adults was estimated to be 2.3% in Australia and 2.1% in the USA. CONCLUSION: As the 5-year relative survival rate for cancer in Australia is now over 60%, it is clear that cytotoxic chemotherapy only makes a minor contribution to cancer survival. To justify the continued funding and availability of drugs used in cytotoxic chemotherapy, a rigorous evaluation of the cost-effectiveness and impact on quality of life is urgently required.
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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Postby Nesaie » Sat May 23, 2009 9:28 am

In light of the kid with leukemia who was court ordered to get chemo, I'm surprised at this study not being brought up. I'm afraid this has now set a bad precedence. There are a lot of issues with this story. When did the state know best on how to raise children? It was the state who sent juveniles to the home ran by Jim Jones before he created his church. And, if they're claiming religious reasons for not doing chemo, what about the 1st Amendment?

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene ... erapy.html

Then again, maybe I'm just talking to myself.
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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Postby Dark-Samus » Mon May 25, 2009 10:49 am

To each his own.
If that is my last resort if I ever get a deadly for long cancer...
Then I would take it.
Instead of crying like a baby and think, Oh no...I`m going to feel dead.
Well thankfully I´ve had that feeling for 20 years now :lol: :mrgreen:
Truth doesn´t control you, you control it...
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Postby mael » Sun May 31, 2009 10:15 am

No, it isn't, Nessaie.

Now that that's cleared up I wanted to ask you something and hijack this thread. ... Sorry about that.

My favourite wife has a bit of a problem.

Basically this is how I see it:- She got pregnant but the pregnancy only lasted two or so months. I suppose that's a miscarriage? But I'd say it was between a late-period and a miscarriage if such a condition exists.

She had all the symptoms she normally does when she's pregnant such as a sudden liking for particular foods and smells and repulsion for others. But the symptoms she usually has when she's pregnant were rather erratic and some days she'd feel pregnant and other days she didn't.

Well, she was having some blood in her - you know, and obviously it wasn't going well. We are not at all concerned with losing the bundle of cells which were dividing inside her, but we are becoming concerned because the bleeding hasn't stopped and it's been about two months since the discharges began.

The discharges are far from constant and recently she says it is like a light period - like at the start - when the blood is reddest. Two or so weeks ago it seems the bulk of the hmmm - embryo left and with it went some blood.

Many years ago she had an awkward miscarriage and went to a gyno to get cleaned-out. But the gyno was -shall we say- an arsehole and didn't do the job properly because a few months later she suddenly jettisoned a litre or so of blood, and had to go to the main hospital where the doctor was woken in the middle of the night to perform an emergency patch-up job. I don't know exactly what was done but somewhere must have been weak and this was fixed. Since that time she has had three more kids with no problems to speak of.

That's basically the story. Now I want to ask you a few things and I'd like your opinion.

* Are we right in assuming that her body will normally be able to deal with a spontaneous abortion/miscarriage and repair the damage? And how long would one expect the healing to take?

- She is a bit anaemic but there has been no compelling need to get a doctor's help because apart from a little spotting she is fine.

- She went to another gyno a few weeks ago and he examined her when she was still pregnant and he said that the pregnancy didn't look good.

We aren't panicking yet, but the continuous discharge is irritating her. Has her cervix got a leak or something?

We've settled on the plan that if the discharges continue then she is going to go to the gyno who examined her when she was pregnant and get some of his advice. - But before that I wanted to ask you.

* I suppose I am worried because I wanted you to see this message.
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Postby Nesaie » Sun May 31, 2009 10:34 am

Well, I'm not a doctor. But, I personally believe the human body, when given the right fuel, can heal itself of most all ailments.

If she is anemic, she should eat iron rich foods like grass fed beef. I believe in using iron cooking pans. My grandmother said that a little iron would come off in the food that is cooked. I know you know good nutrition to feed her. My grandmother also said that when women are anemic they'll bleed longer and stronger.

I don't know if she exercises, but a healthy exercise like yoga may help as well.

Of course if this continues, talk with a naturalpath.
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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Postby mael » Sun May 31, 2009 10:49 am

Nesaie wrote:Well, I'm not a doctor. But, I personally believe the human body, when given the right fuel, can heal itself of most all ailments.

If she is anemic, she should eat iron rich foods like grass fed beef. I believe in using iron cooking pans. My grandmother said that a little iron would come off in the food that is cooked. I know you know good nutrition to feed her. My grandmother also said that when women are anemic they'll bleed longer and stronger.

I don't know if she exercises, but a healthy exercise like yoga may help as well.

Of course if this continues, talk with a naturalpath.


Well thanks Nessaie. We also have faith in the human body's capacity for healing itself. We use a heavy cast iron kettle for hot drinks because of the iron leaching out.

* She's got a part-time job cleaning hotel rooms so she's fitter and stronger than I am most likely.

* Any other ladies out there with some advice or reassurance?

We think that gentle exercise is beneficial so she has at least two orgasms a day (Mostly manual). Is this a good idea? I think she'd get even more irritated if she lost out on that.

Seems we'll go to the gynocologist in a week-to-two weeks if this continues. A two month period? Sounds fun! :? (She is annoyed when I ask her how her ""period"" is).
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Postby Lashmar » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:45 am

You have some sort of mental problem don’t you mael?

You like to fight and argue when nobody has started on you, why don’t you go into politics? ;) :roll:
Read between the lies
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Postby mael » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:42 am

Lashmar wrote:You have some sort of mental problem don’t you mael?

You like to fight and argue when nobody has started on you, why don’t you go into politics? ;) :roll:


What the F*** are you talking about? :x
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Postby mael » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:53 am

Well Nessaie. I thought it'd be like this ... She's now in bed in hospital and she'll have an op tomorrow. :(

What happened is that she's got something called an ectopic pregnancy - or so it seems. The 'lump' is near the womb's entrance and it's got to come out - and it doesn't seem to be coming out on its own this time.

What the doc who examined her tonight isn't sure about is whether or not the embryo implanted further up (in the right place) and then "fell-off" and got lodged in (near) the cervix.

The difference is that if the embryo implanted high in the womb then the chances of stopping the bleeding are very good - well much better than if the embryo attached close to the cervix.

... And this means that the chances of her keeping her womb depends largely on whether the bleeding can be stopped.

* And there is a stench of medical incompetence to all this - if only I could be surprised. :twisted:

I'll probably post the result of the op tomorrow - I hope she's intact.
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Postby Nesaie » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:49 pm

Argument??? Where??? Did I miss it? Damn! I try not to miss a good argument with mael.

Wow mael, I hope all goes well. Are they talking about taking her uterus? That would suck. I did a google search on ectopic pregnancy, as I'm sure you have. Apparently, some of the causes of this are smoking, the pill, IUDs, women who's mothers took big pharma drugs, etc. So, this does sound like it's man made in part.

http://www.justmommies.com/articles/ect ... ancy.shtml

Let us know how surgery went. I do wish you and yours well. Good luck.
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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