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The Obama Administration & US Politics

The Obama Apologists and Republican "Resurgence"

As the 2012 election is now over, Barack Obama has won a second term. Many wonder how his policies, his administration, and how the entire political arena, will change our future.

Postby frrostedman » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:55 pm

Aquarian wrote:I have repeatedly mentioned how the Obama Administration has damaged this country. I have repeatedly mentioned that the Obama Administration is nothing but a continuation of the previous administration. It is a continuation of protecting the privileged interests through bank bailouts and furthering the empress of the war machine (Afghanistan and Pakistan). You fail to see these acts as anything but a continuation of the same vanguard interests out of convenience and political parlaying to your favorite party.

A quick Snopes of your very out-of-context words completely obliterates the premise of your argument:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp

In all those quotes, he was explaining a campus atmosphere, mostly words from a classmate named Joyce.


Aquarian.

You aren't even bothering to read the evidence you put up as a defense.

Your link goes to a defense against claimst that Obama, using out of context quotes, is a die hard pro Muslim racist. I've seen those quotes and I already knew they were out of context. Only the seething, fringe Obama hate sites use them against him. I don't support those sites. And for that matter, I also don't support sites you frequent such as huffingtonpost.com, who is well-known to use out of context quotes to attack others.

None of my quotes are on that snopes list you offered.

Slow down a little bit and trust, for once, that I am not the kind of person who would just willy-nilly throw flimsy accusations out there.

However--if you do have proof that the quotes I submitted are completely out of context, then I truly do want to see your evidence; and I will be the very first in line to take Glenn Beck to task for using those quotes, if they are so out of context. Shame on him if he did it. But I don't think he did because his research is very thorough and he is one to make sure his claims won't come back to haunt him.

So, I'll be standing by for you to either correct your link, or withdraw your counter claim.

:!:
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby Aquarian » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:22 am

I cannot copy and paste from SNOPES because they have blocked that feature. However, if you read through his "own words", you will see that the quotes you have copied and pasted in this thread were expressed from the perspective of one of Obama's classmates (Joyce). It sounds to me that it was youthful Marxism that if ever existed quickly dissipated when he decided to run for the Democratic Party in Chicago Illionois. Not to mention the quotes you included were college day quotes. He hasn't done anything of a substantively socialist manner....AT ALL! He has only angered the real Socialists. You may claim all you want that he has all those paper visit him in his White House, but that does not make it true. And even if it was again, what came out of it? Where are the tangible socialist manifestations? That is what matters. Not some allusions to college days which you hold him to count for. He should be held to count for other things not that. It is very similar to the Birthers who insist he wasn't born in the U.S. just so they can justify their unfounded hatred for him.
The Few assume to be the deputies, but they are often only the despoilers of the Many.
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Postby frrostedman » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:00 am

I scanned through the web page again and found the comment about choosing friends wisely and among them being Marxist professors.

You're wrong. It was Obama's words. Not the words of "Joyce."

Where are the tangible socialist manifestations?

Government Healthcare, for one.

Cap and Trade got swatted down thank goodness.

The Fairness Doctrine is still in the works.

Pushing for tax increases - though largely opposed.

Spending trillions we don't have (which is deeper than you think. the end result hoped for is a collapse of the economy and a nation reaching out to the government for help)

Greatly increasing the size of government.

Demonizing all those who oppose his view (politicians, media outlets alike).

I'll give you the point that Obama talks up more than he's done so far but I don't think it's because he's a fraud. Instead I think it's because some the Democrats in whom he counted upon to rush everything through for him, got cold feet after Obamacare and the national outrage that followed.... killing his rubber stamp majority in the House and Senate.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby Aquarian » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:05 pm

Thank you for listing alleged examples of tangible socialism.

Let's address them.

Government Healthcare, for one.


Right, because government has 100% control over the health care industry :lol: Let us begin by saying that Obama's tepid health care "reform" had the unanimous backing of the pharmaceutical and HMO industries, publicly traded institutions, yes, but privately-run profit-seeking bodies with locations in more than two countries in the world (multinational corporations). Secondly, Obama's health care plan's focus was on cost cutting and deficit reduction; slogans that are arguably meant to sanitize attempts to cut social programs. Obama has consistently advocated the "trimming" of costs, not the promotion of universal, quality health care for all. In fact, do you remember when he publicly dropped the single-payer option (which would have been more socialistic) ? One of the key tenets of his reform plan was to slash $600 billion from the Medicare and Medicaid programs which he claims would have been done without affecting the millions of recipients who depend on those services. Furthermore, forcing an "individual mandate" (individuals and families will be forced to purchase coverage from an insurance company) is not socialistic, since it makes people subservient to the corporations. There is nothing about how much any of these people would have to pay for it. In-fact, nothing in his plan says anything about making health care publicly owned and managed. There is also no guarantee for low cost treatments. The Council of Economic Advisors actually supported Obama's monstrous health care reform because it was not a radical departure from the current system. In-fact, in more ways than one, it actually safeguarded it. What passed was an EXACT replica of what Nixon proposed. The bill also eliminated "fee for service" payments which results in reduced care and inferior medical services. As a consequence of this bill, insurance companies still control price. That is exactly what they did. Insurance rates INCREASED all over the country. Services were still cut. The only difference, the ONLY iota of "socialism" TAKEN AT independent face-value in the health reform bill was the TEMPORARY extension of coverage to people who didn't have health care in "temporary risk pools". They are only allowed to exhaust a certain rate and after that, they are dropped. Or once you reach the ripe old age of 27, you are dropped. Do not spread false information. One of your Commandments explicitly prohibits that.

Cap and Trade got swatted down thank goodness.


Cap and trade; the system that involves privately owned companies to "pay to pollute" and allows them to borrow credits from each other in order to continue to pollute and if they are multinations, they can export those profit-maximizing activities in other lesser developed countries? Again, you're spreading false information, which one of your Commandments explicitly prohibits. Cap and trade is an "illusion" to solving environmental crisis. Cap and trade does not involve mandatory provisions, nor does it actually "cap" the amount of pollution certain industrial activities emit. In fact, the solution is entirely market based, which, by the way, was something that was FIRST advocated by George H.W. Bush in 1991.

The Fairness Doctrine is still in the works.


Nothing "socialistic" about the Fairness Doctrine. Censorship of any kind is not advocated by any truly socialist models, and again, I'm not referring to statist socialism, I'm referring to anarcho-socialism with public ownership of all major institutions, worker-run, etc.


Pushing for tax increases


Oh yes, you mean, repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy?

There goes another capitulation by the President, who, 5 days ago, agreed to extending tax cuts with Republican support, with the exception of those making $200,000/yr...and there's now reports that he may extend those tax cuts to other segments of upper income individuals"

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010 ... ss&emc=rss

Demonizing politicians and media outlets? You mean...the POLITICIAN thing to do? Like Sarah Palin railing against the Washington Post? Or BIll Clinton railing againt the obvious media embracement of Obama during the Democratic Primaries of 2007-2008? Or the Bush press administration lashing out at slightly critical opinions against him? Although I will give you this. The Obama Administration should have never cut Helen Thomas loose. She spoke truth to power.

A far as "increasing the size" of the government...that can be noted under both political parties, including Republican Administrations of Bush I and Bush II. Get your boot off the floor, frrrrooooosssstttteeedmmannnnnnn.
The Few assume to be the deputies, but they are often only the despoilers of the Many.
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