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If the moon landing was a hoax would this happen?

Throughout time, there have been countless government and political conspiracies that have kept us wondering. This forum is dedicated to that very topic. Got a conspiracy theory of your own? Post it, and try to back it up as best you can!

Postby greeney2 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:44 am

You logic is only matched by your own common sense. NASA retains records forever, including the documentation of the husbands personal file, that tells all awards given. It would have been documented he was given this.

You took a big bite by implying common sense reasoning. Now nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.


Where am I hiding?
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Postby capricorn » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:26 am

NASA retains records forever


Yes, because Nasa is great at keeping records.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/07/ ... MK20090716
:roll:
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Postby greeney2 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:03 am

Actually they do keep everything forever, right back to all the Gemini missions. Every part I ever worked on had a "MOR" book, where every step and every operation is documented and stamped by the operator. Every part is has tracability, all the way back to the ore that made the material, that made the part. Right down to simple nuts and bolts. Actually there are no simple nuts and bolts, everyone is special made with tracable alloys. Welding rod has the same tracability, and why these things are so expensive. As a welder, I had to stamp every weld joint I did, with my official welding stamp. NASA wrote me up for leaving my stamp unattented on a desk, and I was 10 feet from it. The books are microfilmed, and keep literally forever. If anything fails, on any part, they can go right to the microfilm, and know everyone who preformed that operation. All the xray views are documented and kept forever.
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Postby capricorn » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:08 am

Audit finds poor NASA record-keeping
http://cjonline.com/stories/022804/pag_audit.shtml

By The Associated Press
NASA is doing a poor job keeping track of breakdowns and other problems aboard the international space station, an internal audit released Friday found.

The post-Columbia safety review also found that the space agency has failed to maintain a complete set of blueprints of space station equipment, and that many documents, agreements and instructions are outdated and filled with inconsistencies.

Soon after Columbia was destroyed last February, NASA's space station program began examining its own operations to identify safety risks. This is the second such report issued on the space station.

The 172-page report offered no examples of any breakdowns or other problems that are not being adequately tracked. But it said that NASA analysis of trends is seriously lacking, with inadequately trained personnel.

NASA was criticized after the Columbia accident for not keeping better track of recurring problems, such as foam breaking off and hitting the shuttles on liftoff.

The audit found shortcomings in the computer database that is supposed to contain electronic drawings of all space station parts. Some drawings were missing; others were on a backlog of items waiting to be entered into the system.

NASA released the report a day after a spacesuit malfunction forced an early end to the first spacewalk to be conducted outside the orbiting outpost without anyone inside overseeing the operation. A crimped cooling line caused cosmonaut Alexander Kaleri's spacesuit to overheat.
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Postby greeney2 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

I can tell you working on the Space Shuttle Main Engine for 30 years, the documentation of so complete,and requires so much time step by step, its impossible to explain in a simple post.

I was also part of the post Challenger and Columbia Stand Downs, where every aspect of what we did was reviewed. That took over 2 years, with thousands on that program, and that was only for the Main Engines. Every other division and sub contractors also did the same. It was as complete and exhausting as the Apollo Stand down after 3 were killed on the Launch Pad, after both insodents.
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:24 am

The post-Columbia safety review also found that the space agency has failed to maintain a complete set of blueprints of space station equipment, and that many documents, agreements and instructions are outdated and filled with inconsistencies.


My company Rocketdyne built the main engines, and we also are a primary designer of the Space Station. Just to give you an example of Blueprints. Most people have seen a simple blueprint, like a floorplan or prints for your home. Pretty short and simple.

Not many things are as complex and complicated to build as the Space Shuttle Main engine. There are 1100 weld joints, and many subassemblies. Fuel pumps alone required an entire manufacturing center. The SSME has at least 50,000 parts if not more. The Main injecter which has 600 posts, all have 11 parts each. Every last part, has blueprints, and most are multiple page prints, some have up to 100 pages. I would venture to guess, every print and page(each page unfolds like a roadmap) must total numbers approching 100,000 or more, This is just for the main engine. These prints are not just laying around, they are very carefully controlled. There is a system for checking the most updated prints out, both in paper form, but electrionic. Its a very complicated undertaking, requiring entire departments who work only on Blueprint updates and changes. Each change or update is a very major undertaking, with approvals and reviews, even on simple parts. There is nothing simple in this business.

You can imagine the emense size of all the bluprints of the entire orbiter, if just the engine is that complex. Now imagine every blueprint required for the entire Space Station. I guarentee you, it would leave you flabbergasted, the total number of prints and pages involved. What is required in manufacting the parts, and what is required for astronauts flying is also 2 different things.

AS far as documents and agreement, specs to work from, they number in the thousands, just for the main engine. There are specs and requirments for so many things, its hard to imagine. Again the total numbers of these things, is enormous.

Prints, specs, processes and proceedures are ever evolving and ever changing, as improvments arise. Being ultra conserative to changes, they take time to impliment. Yes, they do keep impecable records. We do not deliver these things, like the car in your driveway, and wash our hands of it. Neither do the builders of the fuel tanks or any component, or the foam process.
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Postby capricorn » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:11 pm

I understand the strict measures your company took to ensure integrity of information; but after you delivered a project, it was Nasa's responsibility to maintain the project and all the records pertaining to it. They can request the world from any company to be highly efficient with their data requirements; however what good is it if, when its delivered, the data isn't reviewed and archived properly.

Greeney, erasing the original Nasa tapes is a tragedy. Can you even admit that? We are talking about one of the most important records in the history of all mankind.... gone! You can spend all the time and money you want tracking, record keeping and documenting.. but in the end, if the records are not there, then everything you did amounted to nothing.
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:43 pm

I'm not saying NASA has not made some monumental mistakes, their bad decision was a primary cause of the Challenger, making a decision to launch while it was too cold. The unfortunate truth is Manned space flight behind all its glitz and glory, is a very unforgiving learning curve. The 2 year following stand down was such a complete and exhausting review, on every level of the program, and yet still another unforseen disaster occured with Columbia. These are all reasons that will make the private sector ventures, disasters in the making IMHO. They do not have the knowledge base, decades of sucesses. They want it cheaper, along with cheaper may come hasty decisions, cutting corners, thinking this will do. The processes that evolved with a company like mine, along with the knowledge base is now retiring, or companies downsizing.


Using the old moon landing recorded tapes was just stupid, and will be used by conspiracy theorists, to confirm their beliefs it was all fake to begin with. They erased them to reuse, or simply did not store them properly, in the 60's nobody was really thinking about age deteriation, even with television and movies.

My expertise is mainly the record keeping during manufacturing, and the Apollo project was done before my time. But even in the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo days impecable records were done. I would think they knew they had so many copys of everthing it would not matter concerning the original tapes. They should have been held in the National Archives or Smithsonian. Yes, I do think it was utterly stupid, a major blunder.
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Postby Cole_Trickle » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:13 am

greeney2 wrote:You logic is only matched by your own common sense. NASA retains records forever, including the documentation of the husbands personal file, that tells all awards given. It would have been documented he was given this.

You took a big bite by implying common sense reasoning. Now nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.


Where am I hiding?


Every company ever known to man does this, so what? Greeney my contention is a very very simple one, akin to the KISS method............they put man on the moon in 69 yet it 2011 they still can't tell you when and where a dead Satellite is going to crash...........wow we come a long way baby.

No the Moon landing were indeed cold war folly------------Nothing more..........Sure ( make no mistake ) that is my opinion, yet 100 x's more solid by example than any who try to illustrate how they pulled it off.

Apollo Astronaut Surrenders Moon Camera in Lawsuit Settlement


Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell has decided to give up the camera he kept as a memento of his 1971 moon mission rather than face a federal lawsuit over its ownership.

In a settlement he reached with the U.S. government filed with the District Court in southern Florida on Thursday (Oct. 27), the sixth man to walk on the moon agreed to "relinquish all claims of ownership, legal title, or dominion" over the data acquisition camera that flew with him aboard NASA's Apollo 14 mission.

Mitchell agreed to allow Bonhams, the New York auction house where he had consigned the camera for sale last June, to release the artifact to the government. Bonhams had estimated the camera's value at $60,000 to $80,000.

The 16-mm camera, which was one of two motion picture cameras on board the Apollo 14 lunar module "Antares" when it landed on the moon on Feb. 5, 1971, will be given within 60 days to the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC for display.According to the the terms of the settlement, which still needs to be signed off by a judge, Mitchell and the federal prosecutors will be responsible for their own legal fees. Earlier this month, MItchell lost his bid for the case to be dismissed after a judge ruled that Florida's statute of limitations did not apply and any determination if the government had abandoned or gifted the camera would need to be made in court.

Acquiring the acquisition camera

The 6-inch long by 4-inch high by 2-inch thick (15 by 10 by 5 cm) data acquisition cameras (DAC) were flown to record engineering data and lunar surface imagery. This particular camera was mounted inside the lunar module, pointed out the window on Mitchell's side of the lander. [Lunar Legacy: 45 Apollo Moon Mission Photos]

The camera shot the final five minutes of the Antares landing, as Mitchell's crewmate, commander Alan Shepard, piloted the spacecraft to a touchdown on the moon's Fra Mauro Highlands.

After more than 33 hours on the surface, including two moonwalks and a couple of swings with a makeshift golf club, Shepard and Mitchell blasted off from the moon's surface with the camera still on board.

The mission plan called for the DACs to be left in Antares to save weight aboard the command module "Kitty Hawk," the capsule that would return the two moonwalkers and pilot Stu Roosa to Earth. The lunar module and all its contents would be left to slam back onto the moon just a day later.

Before parting ways with the lander though, Mitchell saved the DAC and, together with various other spacesuit and spacecraft hardware that he and Shepard chose to retain as mementos, returned it to Earth.Souvenir or stolen goods

Filed this past June, "United States of America vs. Edgar Mitchell" argued that Mitchell was not assigned clear title for the camera and that it was the "exclusive property of the United States."

Mitchell countered that charge by referring to a practice within the 1970's astronaut office that allowed the Apollo astronauts to keep equipment that hadn't been intended to return from the moon so long as the items did not exceed weight limitations and were approved by management.

In trying to have the suit dismissed, Mitchell also argued that the government had otherwise abandoned the camera when it directed for it to be left behind to impact the moon and be destroyed.

Less than a month after the suit was filed, in a seemingly unrelated move, NASA released guidelines for protecting and preserving the Apollo hardware on the moon, including the crash sites of its lunar modules.

The government never made clear what distinguished the camera from other Apollo-returned hardware that Mitchell and other moonwalkers kept and sold without any sort of legal challenge.

Along with a number of other astronauts including James Lovell and Al Worden, MItchell has consigned other flown items to an upcoming Nov. 30 auction of space artifacts and memorabilia arranged by Heritage Galleries in Dallas, Texas. Mitchell's lots include American and international flags carried to the moon on Apollo 14.


Like I said-----------They'll go to any lengths to protect their turf---------Just like a bully on a child's playground, same level of esteem. WHO F,ING CARES??????????/

http://news.yahoo.com/apollo-astronaut- ... 01376.html

Question: Has this Government ever spent reckless monies for asinine research projects? They call it pork, which is just a fancy name for kick-back! ;)

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Postby greeney2 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:13 am

Only in your own mind are you right!
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