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Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby qmark » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:43 pm

fortwynt wrote:the "word" of God is not the bible....though the "word" of God is certainly contained in the bible....

clearly the "bible" in its singular form is not flawless and without instances of error or fable or fiction, or elaboration, or mistranslation.

I personally believe in the bible and always have....but im not going to say that i think its particularly important to swallow lock stock and barrel every jot and tittle of the thing.....

The "word of God" is most certainly alive, but the "Word of God" is not a piece of paper....it is a spiritual truth that transcends a piece of paper.



The Word of God is Jesus Christ. The Bible is God's word for us. All scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

The scriptures, in their original languages, certainly was without error. There certainly is enough evidence to prove the Bible has stayed true to the original writings (in most cases, there are some bad versions, the enemy has his own agenda) which I am sure you are aware of.

Now if you feel the Holy Spirit made mistakes, or if God is incapable of keeping His word so we can know Him, then those are separate issues.
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Postby fortwynt » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:25 pm

God is capable of making mistakes, yes...at least as far as the bible states that matter....to deny such is to deny the very bible you claim to read.

But let us focus on the bible itself...."inspired" by the holy spirit perhaps, but written by quite fallable men, who did not lose their imperfect nature during the period of writing down the "bible"....

God has revealed himself through nature, which one should (according to the bible) be able to observe and arrive at the same conclusions....certainly the IMPORTANT things in the bible, i.e. forgiveness of others who tresspass against us, charity, meekness, humble spirit....those things are certainly spelled out in the bible....but I have a feeling that one doesnt neccesarily "need" the bible to arrive at those conclusions.

but you might say...."but but there is no path to heaven but jesus christ"...and i would say this is partly true....i do think people misunderstand this....i think that there is no difference between christ, and the message of christ...i believe it was the principles christ outlined which are the "way".....but that one doesnt necessarily HAVE to know of jesus to arrive at those same conclusions....it was simply presented to a people who had no other way of arriving at such except through jesus at that particular time....

when the bible says that the word of God was made flesh, it is my belief that the "word" of God is the "will" of God....which has existed since the beginning....and Christ, as a human being, who did the perfect and utter will of God in every walk of his life, literally could be thought of as the manifestation of the "will" or "word" of God as a person....i dont believe he literally HAD to have existed as a person before he was born, but for all intents and purposes I believe he can be thought of this way....and should be....now, worshipped AS GOD, that i think is a mistake, but to each their own, whatever works best for some...i dont think it is a requirement of salvation either way.
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Postby qmark » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:13 pm

fortwynt wrote: God is capable of making mistakes, yes...at least as far as the bible states that matter....to deny such is to deny the very bible you claim to read.



Please, post the verse where the Bible claims God makes mistakes.

fortwynt wrote:But let us focus on the bible itself...."inspired" by the holy spirit perhaps, but written by quite fallable men, who did not lose their imperfect nature during the period of writing down the "bible"....

God has revealed himself through nature, which one should (according to the bible) be able to observe and arrive at the same conclusions....certainly the IMPORTANT things in the bible, i.e. forgiveness of others who tresspass against us, charity, meekness, humble spirit....those things are certainly spelled out in the bible....but I have a feeling that one doesnt neccesarily "need" the bible to arrive at those conclusions.

but you might say...."but but there is no path to heaven but jesus christ"...and i would say this is partly true....i do think people misunderstand this....i think that there is no difference between christ, and the message of christ...i believe it was the principles christ outlined which are the "way".....but that one doesnt necessarily HAVE to know of jesus to arrive at those same conclusions....it was simply presented to a people who had no other way of arriving at such except through jesus at that particular time....

when the bible says that the word of God was made flesh, it is my belief that the "word" of God is the "will" of God....which has existed since the beginning....and Christ, as a human being, who did the perfect and utter will of God in every walk of his life, literally could be thought of as the manifestation of the "will" or "word" of God as a person....i dont believe he literally HAD to have existed as a person before he was born, but for all intents and purposes I believe he can be thought of this way....and should be....now, worshipped AS GOD, that i think is a mistake, but to each their own, whatever works best for some...i dont think it is a requirement of salvation either way.


There is a WHOLE lot of personal opinion there. Be that as it may, if you believe in Jesus Christ as your savior, then you are a brother and I wish you well. I will not argue with a brother or sister in Christ.
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Postby Questioner101 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:36 pm

Spirituality?? With "god" killing things left and right, wars and contentions, people attacking other people just because someone with ADD told them that this piece of property is their land?? Sorry....the whole 1st book (OT) is one huge mess....

NT: one man "tried" to get people to stop believing in the first book...and be kind to each other. Others got hold of his ideas, perverted them...and we're suffering from the mess today.

More's the pity.
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Postby fortwynt » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:30 am

god isnt killing anyone quest.

qmark...easy....one is where, God repented of making man and sent a flood to destroy them all..lid call that aconowledgement of a mistake.
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Postby starman » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:39 am

Like many Christians, I used to think that the bible was the true testament of morality, written by God himself/herself...whatever. Needless to say, for me anyway, I was delusional. Spending hours upon hours upon hours reading the bible, without faith, it would have made no sense at all. There was nothing wrong with the bible.

In this fantasy world, the bible cannot be proven wrong. The bible, knowingly, can support just about anything. Both good and evil immediately come to mind. Jesus says “But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also .” God commands Saul to “go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass”. There are many such contradictions of support in the bible.

The bible is like this because it was written by men, a fatal flaw, an arrow through the heart of what many call the word of God. Many Christians say it is a peaceful, loving, perfect, God-written treatise, it is not.
a book without light
unless with love we write ~ Moody Blues
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Postby qmark » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:45 pm

fortwynt wrote:qmark...easy....one is where, God repented of making man and sent a flood to destroy them all..lid call that aconowledgement of a mistake.


I think you presume too much.

Gen 6 :5-6 NASB
Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

That is not an admission of a mistake. I don't know about you, but I have said things and done things in which I was sorry the way it turned out but I was absolutely right in saying or doing them. No mistake was made, just a lousey result.

And, how do we know that was not part of God's plan? From the moment of the fall the plan of redemption was already in place in which Noah, and judgment, was an integral part.

How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
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Postby MonarchSmile » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:33 pm

How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

Exactly, Great Answer

That is how some of our fathers felt to us, also :roll:

Believe and Obey, Have Faith............
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Postby Questioner101 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:42 pm

Let's see the "flood" of Tigris and Euphrates, removed a certain batch of humans...but some escaped....and here we are. So when's the next plague?? God keeps missing the target...
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Postby MonarchSmile » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:03 pm

Lets see..........Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Hell on Earth(Global Climate Change)? :twisted:
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