The Black Vault

For today in coinage we still have in circulation as a medium of exchange the Susan B. Anthony dollar coin. Made out of Copper Nickle. The metal composition of the Susan B. Anthony is the same as the half dollar coin though it is only 2/3s the physical size of the half...yet it claims on it to be worth twice the amount in the marketplace.


Is there a point, when the nickle and penny have been bigger than the dime? At one time in the 1800's we had large cents and small cents, just prior to the civil war is was reduced to the same size it is now. We did not even make a silver dollar for 25-30 years, the Eisenhower dollar was not that popular, but he SBA was a total flop, because people confused them for quarters. The current dollar coin isn;t much more popular, and still is not the same size as the old Morgan or Peace Dollars either.

In any case, "In God We Trust" first appeared on the 2-cent piece during the civil war, and was done due to the religious sentiment during the civil war. It had nothing to do with any weights and measures, silver or gold backed standards, whatsoever.

Greeny2,

Before there were nickles there was a coin called a Half Dime. And It was a 5 cent weight of silver and happened to be half the size and weight of a ten cent silver coin.

Also concerning nickles There was also a time when some of the nickles contained a 5 cent weight of silver in them. You can tell them by the letter above the building on the back of them. D..or an S...above the capitol building. These nickles also have a slightly different hue in colour due to the silver content. Of course today they no longer do this at all.

Nonetheless..our coinage no longer represents a system of just weights and measures. No matter how you try to call it today...it represents counterfeiting the money. We have an official authorized counterfeiter in the US government.

Also ...cash meant coin..as the paper notes were to be redeemable in coin.ie...specie. You can find this definition of Notes in the Uniform Commercial Code and also in Blacks Law Dictionary.

But today because we have been to public school...they no longer teach this..but folk like me still know it. Not because I learned it in school ..but because I taught myself.

It also means concerning "In God We Trust" that the government has at sometime past switched from the God of The Bible...the God of Just Weights and Measures...to another god of Unjust Weights and Measures. They have switched gods and not told the public they have done this. They don't dare.

So "In God We Trust" means little to nothing when they have switched gods and told no one.
The Atheists are correct here.
It should be taken off the coinage and the notes. Because the god of Unjust weights and Measures is also called "The Counterfeiter." "The Liar."

Having cheap monies...counterfeit moneys..fiat monies ...also allows the government to out buy everyone and anyone out here in the economy for a major piece of the same economic pie.

We as people become the major competition in this marketplace against the government. It becomes we...who's spending must be controlled/limited...lest we out buy the government in the one economy which exists.

This is why the government ..when they significantly raise the deficit ...must also follow with tax increases.
The government has now become so corrupt that they use divide and conquer techniques to get us to go along without being aware of where it is tending or leading....ie..."Tax the Rich."

The video link provided by Rykuss on page 3 of this thread is very good on this topic.

The power to create cheap monies unlimited is the power to destroy everything and anything and always leads to chaos in the end.

A system of Just weights and measures as monies limits the power of government over the people and insures prosperity. Historically ..banking working through their dupes in government... have always worked to shave the coinage until they figured out a new way to cheat people and put the government working for them. Fiat phony counterfeit monies. And today ...electronic monies...they no longer have to pay for printing and coinage costs..it will be all profit. It will also be bondage for the people.

But this is a topic line which will never be taught in public schools.

Hope this helps,
Orangetom

I Love OT, everybody but you is stupid with your ranting about public education again, and that you taught yourself everything. You are the Suma Cum Laudi of Me, Myself, and I University. Maybe thats the problem, when you teach yourself everything, you have no idea when your are way off the mark. Yes, there was a half dime, and there were also half cents, and 3 cent pieces. We have had talk of doing away with the penny, so everything would round off the the nearest nickle.

When you had a silver and gold standard, you could make a coin with that relative value by weight within the coin, and the coins graduation by weight accordingly. How big do you think a silver dollar would be at todays silver rates? How are you going to control any of that when the price fluxuates daily worldwide. Do you adjust the coin value daily, or the prices of products daily. Paper money at one time was backed with actual bullion in Fort Knox, now it doesn;t matter if they have gold in the vaults or Obama's dirty underwear. When the gold and silver are not held at stable values, something has to change, so the system stays stable. Now all commodities change on a daily basis, but none so dramatic as Gold, Silver, Platinum. They also in the days of the founding Fathers, ever invisioned some day when their uses would be for anything but money and beauty. Nobody thought about electronics, catalitic converters, and I'm sure something in that Nuke Plant you work at. The space shuttle main engine has enough gold in it to buy you a mansion. You are wrong about one thing, taking off "In God We Trust", the motto off our coins and money, becasue now more than ever, we need to "Trust in God" concerning our money and economy.

The world population, and the ratio of precious metals has gotten so far apart, there is not that amount of Gold or Silver to have that standard. Is the piece of paper or metal in the coin have a melt value equal, no it does not, but neither does the rest of the worlds money. Our money is backed up by many other things, other than gold and silver, it is far from void of value.

What I will agree on is the fact our money and stamps have totally lost their appeal for collectable value. We no longer have the gold and silver standard, and at the same time, our coinage processes lost the hand engraved quality of the pre 1964 eras. Nothing is more stunning that a older coin in mint condition like the Morgan Dollars, or the Barber series, etc. Likewise our US stamps, have become stickers with modern printing. The old stamps, are long gone, that were engraved like the US currency. Variety, color, different perfs, kinds of paper, kind of presses used, etc.etc. They were both symbols of Ameica's strength, and now at best they reflect lost arts, lost era of real American pride, and the lowering our standards in quality of National products. Again we better "Trust in God", because we sure have lost our ability to "Trust in Country", if you use our coins and stamps as examples.

Greeny2,

Yes, there was a half dime, and there were also half cents, and 3 cent pieces.

Yes..we did indeed. Quite correct..and they did indeed conform to the "Standard " of just weights and measures....in content and size. I have a couple of half dimes in my collection. I am not into the pennies so much.
But at the failing price of copper..that might be a good idea to get a few...if for nothing else than their historical value..which is the main reason I have them.

We have had talk of doing away with the penny, so everything would round off the the nearest nickle.

Yes..this is what logical reasonable men do rather than keep a standard..they go to fluctuating standards where everything floats. Will they nickle up or nickle down??? What do you think??

How big do you think a silver dollar would be at today's silver rates? How are you going to control any of that when the price fluctuates daily worldwide.

Your joking with me here right. Your not showing your public education are you??? Seriously..I mean it.
A silver dollar never was a silver dollar ...it was a dollar of silver by weight ..fixed.
What is fluctuating is the value of our paper monies..our fiat phony monies..not the gold or silver. If people could ever think outside the box of emotions and public education..they would realize this.

Go out an try to purchase a real silver dollar..a real dollar of silver by weight ..today...then go back in about a year and try to buy the same dollar of silver by weight and see what happens. It is our phony paper money which is fluctuating..not the silver. You certainly don't buy more silver when you purchase this commodity. You just pay more in cheaper paper monies.

It is the dollar which is fluctuating now that it is not tied to silver or gold..and they are also cheating in the copper now too.

Even when I go out and buy silver by the troy ounce..ounces 99.9% pure...the price fluctuation in paper monies.

You don't need to be a genius to understand this. So what gives with you here Greeny2??

You don't usually get more house today ..but like the silver and gold..it costs you more in inflated dollars. It is the dollar itself which is taking a nose dive and fluctuating. The very thing which is being attempted to be hidden from us by the media as well as government. ....who is also financing public education.

Some of this is demand fluctuation but in a fiat phony paper money system the trend will always be up..in prices because the government is not going to stop printing or issuing them. ..until the whole thing collapses.

There has never been falling prices in an unbacked money. And no matter what they tell you ...our money is unbacked.

Real money never has to be backed...real money speaks for itself. Common sense..Greeny2...but this too is never taught in public schools.

The 1897 silver dollar I am carrying in my pocket right now ..does not need to be backed..it is a dollar. Real money...lawful money does not need to be backed....ever...it stands on its own merits and demerits.

To my knowledge Greeny2...all the nations of the world are now on the phony fiat money system. The one nation which threatened the system of phony money by working towards issuing their own gold money..has been overthrown and the Muslim Brotherhood installed in its place..Libya.
I found this very interesting.

The nation which is now demanding gold for their oil...Iran...is now in the cross hairs of the nations which are on the phony fiat money and banking system. I find this very interesting too.

It is one thing to piss in the face of a nation like the United States...no problem. It is another thing entirely to go against the world banking system and threaten its workings with a real gold and silver economy..based on precious metals. To operate outside this rigged system. That will have to be straightened out ..no matter what the cost or to whom.

When the gold and silver are not held at stable values, something has to change, so the system stays stable. Now all commodities change on a daily basis, but none so dramatic as Gold, Silver, Platinum. They also in the days of the founding Fathers, ever invisioned some day when their uses would be for anything but money and beauty. Nobody thought about electronics, catalitic converters, and I'm sure something in that Nuke Plant you work at. The space shuttle main engine has enough gold in it to buy you a mansion.

You still dont get it at all Greeny2. It is not the gold and other precious metals which change..it is the currency being used to purchase them which is changing.

You are wrong about one thing, taking off "In God We Trust", the motto off our coins and money, becasue now more than ever, we need to "Trust in God" concerning our money and economy.

I am not saying that we don't need God..Not saying that at all Greeny2. I am saying that "In God We Trust " means nothing when it is obvious to thinking people that our government has privily and secretly switched gods and told no one they had done this. Switched to the god of unjust weights and measures from the God of Just weights and Measures.
In this I am in Agreement with the Atheists on the "In God We Trust " on the coinage and bills. It is meaningless. A joke on the people...and the public trust.
It is also "Whoredom."
The buying, selling, and trading of everything in the country for lucre.

The world population, and the ratio of precious metals has gotten so far apart, there is not that amount of Gold or Silver to have that standard. Is the piece of paper or metal in the coin have a melt value equal, no it does not, but neither does the rest of the worlds money. Our money is backed up by many other things, other than gold and silver, it is far from void of value.

What????????????????????????

Wow!! So how does this explain the failure of money systems around the world when they are all not using gold and precious metals?? How do you explain this failure Greeny2???.....ie..the Euro??? Greece?? Public Education???
Remember what economists are ...men of letters ..highly educated ..bankers too. Businessmen too.

The Hungarian Pengo would be an example of this.

What I will agree on is the fact our money and stamps have totally lost their appeal for collectible value.

I agree..even the quality of printed items has fallen drastically. The olde notes were indeed a thing of beauty. It appears to me that even the ink is of an inferior quality to what was previously used.
It also looks to me that with the new notes they have put alot of good engravers out of work and substituted something of very generic and poor quality.

I just managed to pick up an olde dollar note...one of the olde bigger/wider ones. It cost me some 35 dollars and is not in particularly collectable condition..but I wanted one as a token of history. Ive never owned one of the olde wide notes...issued before today's sizes.

Gotta go...things to get done here today.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I have to admit OT, you can put me in the dust with some of your explanations, but when you start equating things like "In God We Trust" into the God of weights and measures, and the Government switching Gods, you lost me totally. I think thats your Me, Myself, and I University education, vs everyones public schooling.

Forgot to mention the Nickles you mention were the wartime nickles from 42-45, they call them Warnicks. The 35% silver was less needed for the war effort, and they added it to the nickle to save, Nickle alloy which was a critical alloy for the war. That should show you that the precious metals used to back money, doesn't always work. Copper was also in short supply, so they made the 43 penny out of steel, and the 44 penny was made from reclaimed brass, rather than pure copper.

AS far as Iran starting to demand gold for oil, it will never happen, but maybe instead of giving what the USA does best away, we should sell every last drop of food we grow, becasue the middle east does not give one drop of oil away. They sure can't grow much in some of their deserts, yet this country gives away so much food, the farmers should all be living like shieks, but instead they are on the edge of bankruptsy.

moeny is simply a metaphor..a symbol..a representation..the value it has, is the value we give to it..it's an illusion

OT I'm surprized you are not making an issue out to the news yesterday as it relates to your quote. The law that orders the Catholic Church to include birth control coverage to their insurance, is exactly the kind of law that violates a religious belief and freedom.

Greeny2,

I have to admit OT, you can put me in the dust with some of your explanations, but when you start equating things like "In God We Trust" into the God of weights and measures, and the Government switching Gods, you lost me totally. I think thats your Me, Myself, and I University education, vs everyones public schooling.

Hmmm...you probably have a good and valid point here Greeny2. In particular as concerns Just weights and measures and the God of Just Weights and Measures verses Public Education/Public Schooling.


I began to ponder this some years ago...when I realized the concepts and understandings I was learning concerning monies are from a position and angle never covered in public schooling. I also realized there as a perfectly rational explanation for this absence. Because it would cause people who are interested in the difference in the two systems....to take a close look at the Bible and make the connection with Just Weights and Measures...with God and the God of the Bible. This cannot be allowed today ..for it would compete with rational logical men and their goals.

For you see Greeny2...the original coinage Act of April 2, 1792 established a system of Weights and Measures denominated in Dollars and Cents. For the system is recorded in certain books of the United States Codes Annotated...USCA....as being silver or gold to the dollar weight..90% pure and so many grains of each metal to the dollar weight. IN copper..to the penny weight and a purity of copper.

What you have here is a system of weights and measures...very similar to Mamma's measuring spoons or measuring cups in her kitchen...because you are measuring and weighing real stuff....gold, silver, and copper.


What you have going on today..is the measure itself is the money ..not the stuff being measured. This should be obvious by the difference in the Susan B. Anthony super quarter and the half dollar coin made out of the same metal..that we now have unjust weights and measures...by educated , knowledgeable, sophisticated men.

Now the God of the Bible requires just weights and measures..like Mamma's measuring spoons or measuring cups. And this is what we had for many many years. And it conformed to the Bible requirements for monies and measures.

Today now that we are educated in public schools and this is never taught...we have a system of monies which is of Unjust weights and Measures and not at all like Mamma's measuring spoons or cups.

Thus somewhere along the line our government has switched systems of weights and measures...and also by this ...switched gods to the god of unjust weights and measures. If anyone else was doing this ..Greeny2 ..it would be considered counterfeiting. But we today have an official counterfeiter in the US Government.

It is simple once you know and also know that government and government financed public schools do not teach this kind of thinking or relationship recognition. They don't dare. You might think for yourself.

This fraud and counterfeit also allows government to outspend everyone and everything in the economy out here and get them to give up huge amounts of labor and materials for something they get for pennies on the dollar. Just as another counterfeiter would be doing.

And Government is so far gone on this template that they want to talk about the Rich!!! Government is the rich as long as they can continually create cheap money and get us to give up our labor and goods for something they get for pennies on the dollar.

And Public Schooling and a compliant media and politics insures that most people never see it for the system of Unjust Weights and Measures it is. They especially don't want the public to see or known it from the Ungodly angle it also is.
And they are become quite successful at this scam...by public education non standards.

William Durant..the historian stated in an interview as to why all the great civilizations fell...he stated.."Primarily because their standards fell."

And money covers everything in a nation...everything!!

That should show you that the precious metals used to back money, doesn't always work.

This was a problem with the "Lincoln Greenbacks" because of the costs of the Civil War. The paper money could not be brought to full redeem ability. The money did however become fully redeemable under the Administration of US Grant...sometime in the 1870s. And prosperity took off..even after our involvement in WW1.

The Central Bank/Federal Reserve was supposed to be designed to prevent collapses, fluctuations..and was sold as such. By 1929...the very thing it was supposed to stop ..happened...and continued to around WW2.

The other problem with your argument of precious metals used to back monies not working is that in many if not all nations today..you have unbacked monies in circulation. Anyone thinking for themselves knows many of these nations with unbacked monies are on the verge of economic collapse under tremendous debt load..including the USA. Looks to me like unbacked money has its problems as well.

All that is going to happen in these nations is that the people will lose everything they have worked for and they will have a change of government charter..either officially or by default/quietly.
They will lose their ability to determine the course of action for themselves and their nation. I say this if it has not already been lost by the debt structure and over reaching government intrusion into every facet of their lives.

Almost always ..when a nations money fails the government falls.and the odds of them getting a better government than the one before are almost historically...nil..,,Zero. And History records mostly this pattern.

Usually they get more of the same..only worse. And also another phony fiat money system to replace the one which failed.

AS far as Iran starting to demand gold for oil, it will never happen, but maybe instead of giving what the USA does best away, we should sell every last drop of food we grow, because the middle east does not give one drop of oil away. They sure can't grow much in some of their deserts, yet this country gives away so much food, the farmers should all be living like shieks, but instead they are on the edge of bankruptsy.

Food as well as water..are going to be the tools of the future in what some call a "Resource War."
Also bear in mind if the oil goes..the food also goes. For there is currently no way to grow food for the demand without any fuel of sufficient energy density to power machines to do this work. Not enough animal or human power to efficiently fill the gap.

And educated geniuses want to stop not only the water flow ..but the fuel flow as well. Public Education at work here.

Starvation is soon coming to planet earth ..en mass. By design.

Hope this helps,
Orangetom

bionic wrote:moeny is simply a metaphor..a symbol..a representation..the value it has, is the value we give to it..it's an illusion

I spent some of that metaphorical symbolic representation today on a nice lunch with the wife and some beer. Blue Moon, Winter Abbey Ale, if anyone is interested. It's really good too.

Rykuss wrote:

I spent some of that metaphorical symbolic representation today on a nice lunch with the wife and some beer. Blue Moon, Winter Abbey Ale, if anyone is interested. It's really good too.

Yeah...I spend some of it on soup and crackers to take with me to work. It is good too.

However, I am concerned for the time not to far away when the price of the soup and crackers doubles and triples along with everything else in this country.

I am in contact with some people in the Uk and they tell me about what is happening in their economy. I believe the UK and the Continent are the template we are slated and scheduled to follow....by design.
The very same, costly, and ineffective social programs they have in place are slated to be put in place here in America. Thus spelling disaster for their nation over the long run. Just as it did in Ancient Rome...along with the same corruption and depravities from their leaders down.

Thanks,
Orangetom