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Proofs of God

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Postby humphreys » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:17 am

Fine, Christians are mistaken, not delusional, by your definition.

I'm fine with that.

Although I might ask you to define "impair". Christians make major changes to their lives based on their Christians beliefs, we could quibble whether that's an impairment, I'm sure they certainly wouldn't think so but I know some atheists who would certainly disagree.

Would it be considered an impairment if one's beliefs made accepting someone else's blood a sin, or accepting medical help for their child a sin, or not using contraception? Some of the more extreme examples from some of the more extreme believers, but it at least shows it is not as clear cut as you might imagine.

I know of children who are not allowed to be taught certain scientific principles due to conflicts with the bible, things like an Old Earth, and evolution. I would consider that an impairment myself when kids are being taught that man lived amongst, hunted, and even rode the dinosaurs.

It doesn't really matter, these word games don't generally get anyone anywhere.
Last edited by humphreys on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby at1with0 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:22 am

Everything is a game, except when it's not. :D

Saying Christians are delusional is tantamount to saying they are crazy. While I am not a Christian, I don't consider Christians to be crazy.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby humphreys » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:25 am

at1with0 wrote:Everything is a game, except when it's not. :D

Saying Christians are delusional is tantamount to saying they are crazy. While I am not a Christian, I don't consider Christians to be crazy.


I don't consider Christians crazy either, we're just using different definitions.

Like I said, I consider everyone to be delusional in some sense as I am sure no one is immune from holding a false belief with conviction.
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

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Postby humphreys » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:27 am

The most basic dictionary definition of a delusion is:

"a false belief or opinion"

For delusional it is:

"having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions"

I don't think the way I am using it is actually invalid against all accepted definitions.
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:16 am

I think its pretty unrealistic to brand over 6 Billion people on the earth who believe in God in some form, delusional. This is the concenseous and conclusions of hundreds of religions, centuries of history, and countless different cultures over thousands of years, that man has been convinced these are not false beliefs. Cultures separated completly from other cultures, have reached the same conclusion. It was not until 1492 did Europe think the world was flat, and the cultures of the Americas had exsisted for centuries and had these same conclusions of God.
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Postby humphreys » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:27 pm

Greeney.

As a Christian, given my dictionary definition of delusional above, you'd have to think millions of atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Pantheists, Deists, and Hindus delusional with respect to their God beliefs, no?

How many millions of Muslims think they're going to get a bunch of virgins allocated to them in heaven?

You must consider them delusional with regard to that belief, surely.

I think it's pretty unrealistic of you to lump all God believers together, when in reality their views of God differ vastly. In fact, in many regards, they differ so greatly that atheism is actually closer to them than Christianity (Deism, Buddhism, and agnosticism, for instance).
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Postby Guest » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:51 pm

humphreys wrote:Greeney.

As a Christian, given my dictionary definition of delusional above, you'd have to think millions of atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Pantheists, Deists, and Hindus delusional with respect to their God beliefs, no?

How many millions of Muslims think they're going to get a bunch of virgins allocated to them in heaven?

You must consider them delusional with regard to that belief, surely.

I think it's pretty unrealistic of you to lump all God believers together, when in reality their views of God differ vastly. In fact, in many regards, they differ so greatly that atheism is actually closer to them than Christianity (Deism, Buddhism, and agnosticism, for instance).


Right. They can't all agree, even though they are all Christians. Which is why there are so many denominations. It's the same with the Jews, different beliefs, some even border on Christianity and I've met a few who even blend them together. Based on that, I don't think they can all be lumped together.
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:05 pm

Humphreys either you do not read well, or you are so intent on your point, you just do not listen or hear what is said. As I just wrote over 6 billion believe in God in some form. I did not group them for any reason other than they believe in some God and worship according to who they are. I also stated these cultures are even complety separated, not influenced by each other and independantly conclude a belief in God.

Such a great critical thinker as you might even ask just how and why did the native Americans, the Mayans, the Inca, and other inhabitants of the Ameica's who are uninfluenced by cultures of Europe and Asia, concluded there was God?
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Postby event_horizon » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:37 pm

SmokinJoe wrote:
EH wrote:
You just completely ignored the point I made. Your reply has nothing to do with what I posted. This isn't about the "6 Day Creation" period. This is about the Timeline in the Bible that starts with Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago and onward. Here, look at the Biblical people chart that begins in 4,000 B.C. with "Adam":

http://www.startagain.org/images/Creati ... ne-web.gif

The fact that humans walked the Earth 400,000 years ago obliterates the "Adam and Eve" fairy tale.


It was answered. Please re-read it or ignore it. Either way, my view on it is in there.

The 6000yr timeline was introduced by Ussher in the 17th Century. The 6 days can be looked at, and is in many believer's view, a spiritual accounting, not a literal 24hr day clock. For many Christians, jews, & believers since the beginning never have looked at the 6 days as literal. Since God can create all things at once, and is within and outide of time, it's just silly to believe in the 24hr/6day timeline in a literal sense.

There are a few out there that do believe it though. So, like I said, you're free to believe whatever interpretation you want. But, upon reading the Bible, and knowing God created all things at once, I simply cannot view the 6 days in any light other than a spiritual reference, not literal.


I went back and re-read your post again just for your sake, and yep, it still says the same thing it said when I read it the first time.

Again, for the THIRD time, this has NOTHING to do with the creation of the "Heavens and the Earth". Forget about the period up to "Genesis 1:3". Whether you interpret that period to be billions of years is completely irrelevant.

This has to do with the creation of "Adam and Eve" and the TIME AFTER "Adam and Eve". This means that I'm referring to the beginning of the HUMAN Timeline, beginning with Genesis 1:27 -- So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

If you look at the chart posted at the link below, you can see that "Adam" lived from 3950 B.C. to around 3020 B.C. (930 years old :lol:). Again, HUMAN REMAINS have been found to be 400,000 years old. If the Biblical HUMAN Timeline had gone back to 400,000 B.C. to "Adam and Eve," then the story would be much more credible.

Again, these findings destroy the bogus "Adam and Eve" story. There's no amount rationalizing/Christian Apologetic-ising that can get around it.

http://www.startagain.org/images/Creati ... ne-web.gif
I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what logic and reason cause me to believe. All I want is to live with the truth -- nothing more, nothing less.
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Postby event_horizon » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:41 pm

SmokinJoe wrote:
I said I know the "Biblical God" doesn't exist. You're the one making the outlandish claim that not only do you KNOW "God" exists, but it's the "Biblical God".


You do see the hypocrisy of that statement, right??? LOL :thumbup:


You DO see the disparity in that statement, right? I'm claiming to know that just ONE "God" out of all the thousands that have ever been invented by man doesn't exist, and you're claiming to KNOW that ONE out of all those thousands DOES exist.

Besides, the "Biblical God" has already been proven to not exist, because the very foundation of the Bible -- the "Adam and Eve" story -- is false, as I've shown in my previous post. So it's not "pseudoskeptical". :mrgreen:
I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what logic and reason cause me to believe. All I want is to live with the truth -- nothing more, nothing less.
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