The Black Vault

at1with0 wrote:I would define math by its objects of study, not the method of study.

Language can define linguistic objects, yes

Are the linguistic objects a language? What are its phonemes?

Linguistic objects are utterances and meaning is conveyed via combinations of the utterances ...or phonemes

What are the utterances of the alleged language called math?

at1with0 wrote:What are the utterances of the alleged language called math?

You could assign an utterance to every math symbol. The combination of various symbols convey meaning in the language that is math.

khanster wrote:

at1with0 wrote:What are the utterances of the alleged language called math?

You could assign an utterance to every math symbol. The combination of various symbols convey meaning in the language that is math.

I would say that the objects referenced by what you're calling the language is what math is. I make the distinction between human-invented math and the objects of study of math.

at1with0 wrote:

khanster wrote:

at1with0 wrote:What are the utterances of the alleged language called math?

You could assign an utterance to every math symbol. The combination of various symbols convey meaning in the language that is math.

I would say that the objects referenced by what you're calling the language is what math is. I make the distinction between human-invented math and the objects of study of math.

Humans invent the symbols, yes.

...But the true math itself, is it discovered or invented? I suspect that math is actually discovered, not invented.

It can be broken down to whether or not statements made in the language of human-invented mathology exist independently of humans.

(How it can be so broken down isn't supposed to be obvious.)

The meanings of such statements exist, in my opinion, independently of humans.

Ergo, the objects of study of human mathology exist independently of humans.

khanster wrote:I would like to argue that the universe is a self aware structure:

If the universe is a giant brain, how can we establish communication with that brain?

How can a tiny component of a brain communicate with the brain?

Perhaps gravity waves...

Maybe it already is but it's not aware of it.