The Black Vault

Dark-Samus wrote:

And if any of my daughters came up to me and told me that they felt they liked women in the same manner as my wife loves me I would still love them, not kick them out nor shun them from anything different than if they were loving men. I would not agree with their choices, just the same as i would not agree with them murdering, stealing or cheating on their spouses, but no matter how things go I could never throw my daughter out the door nor condemn them for actions like you have posted.

Then you are one of the few who actually has a brain.
So I odn´t have anything against you on that.
But the truth still remains.
Most religious people are alot more hostile to people being gay, including their son/daughter than they would be if it was a murderer.

Why can't most of you love others regardless of their beliefs? Apparently anyone who believes in some form of supernatural entity is considered an idiot, worthy of death and branded with an iron of contempt and should be cast into a lake with a millstone around their necks. Where is your love, brothers? Who are the real judges here? Hypocrites.

You still can´t see the big issue here now can you?
Gays would never ever hate or disrespect religions if they didn´t persecute them,torture them,hate them,close them out like garbage and so on.
So what do you expect the response is towards them?

And the belief in something is up to every individual, BUT that does not give you the authority or any reason to go and spread hate to those who are not like you or believe the same like you.
You talk about love?
Love is when you don´t have any problems with that person´s identitiy of any kind (unless it´s a Nazi,Racist and those kind of nutjobs )
Like the pope right now.
"I`ve written a peace song"
Yeah? stop making a fool out of yourself when you say that gays would be much better dead or extinct from this planet.
Ppppppaaaatthhhheeeetiiiicccccccc

Silly atheists. Don't you know how vain and fragile people are? If there weren't a G-d, man would create one. You'll just have to forgive them for they know not what they do.

They did invent the picture of God, and I understand perfectly how patheticly weak humans are.

Ya, but it's just a picture.

Which is a wrong one and leads to the situation we have today

I am not a die hard religous person.

I have my beliefs just like anyone else. I have to agree with Illuminati, that if you are truely a person of faith, then you must love or forgive all. I still think the main problem is when gays want to call their civil union, marriage.

I truely think that is what is fueling the fire in this situation. Why do the gays want something called marriage that relates to religion, yet badmouth all religion at the same time? It seems to me they are trying to disgrace everything that straight people who are religious stand for. That I believe is the big problem.

I too have an issue with the gay lifestyle.I beleive it is immoral.I don't use my belief to harass, or look down on gays. It's not my part to judge. However I do have and have had many gay friends.They all have a problem with people who are religous. Why can't they love, and forgive all as well ?

I don't know it just seems like it has more to do with not understanding ,and not giving eachother enough space.



BloodStone...

BloodStone wrote:I too have an issue with the gay lifestyle.I beleive it is immoral.I don't use my belief to harass, or look down on gays.




They all have a problem with people who are religous. Why can't they love, and forgive all as well ?

I don’t think anyone can say anyone else’s life style is immoral just because they like the same sex. So long as they don’t harm me of my loved one I really don’t care.



Why can’t religion start by forgiving them first?

Just the way I have been brought up Lash.


Like I said I still have many gay friends , and I consider most of them family. They don't harm me, or my way of life.






BloodStone...

BloodStone wrote:They don't harm me, or my way of life.

That’s exactly my point.

Why do the gays want something called marriage that relates to religion, yet badmouth all religion at the same time? It seems to me they are trying to disgrace everything that straight people who are religious stand for. That I believe is the big problem.

I don´t really get it either...
And if they do it...because of equal rights then they are sure fighting in the wrong place

Like I said I still have many gay friends , and I consider most of them family. They don't harm me, or my way of life.

Atleast someone is getting it.

Hypocrites?

I love the fact your senerio assumes facts all religious people treat murder, stealing, and infidelity in their kids this way, and all religious people treat being gay another way. Your senerio is very self serving and pretty much "loaded", which in itself is very hypocritical.

You also assume the idea of sin is the same in all religious, or the way it is precieved. Some religions regard any sin as equal to others. Catholics have Venial and Mortal sins, Mortal being one that wold send you to Hell. Some religions would go as far as to execute those for gay behavior. Some countries condone a husband killing another man found with his wife. So there are many cultures of the world that make your senerio unable to be a blanket senerio to all religions or cultures.

That said, I don't know many parents who know their kids are murderers. But I do know 2 cases where coworkers were murdered. Felt real sorry for the one man, who's son killed anther coworkers son, in a drug deal gone bad. The 2 Dads, had gotten both sons hired, so you can imagine the strain between 2 20-year employees facing each other and the factory. The murderers Dad would travel to Nevada regularly to see his son in Prision. This wan't just a normal murder, he hacked off his hands too so they wouldn;t ID him with prints. The other case was over infidelity, where one coworker killed the other for sleeping with his wife. Shot him 3 times with a 357 becasue he disappoved of his separated wife doing this around the kids. He killed him as he left for work one day. The murderer was a guard at the plant, not sure how his parents visited him, but he only served about 10 years.

I'm sure most parents I know would not tolerate a child out stealing and doing crimes. Doing drugs, doing nothing but partying, up to no good, etc. etc and wouldn;t say "OUT". That doesn't have too much to do with religion in my opinion. For every parnet who would from a purly religious standpoint, they are as many from a non-religious standpoint. I also think the same applys to the treatment if you were gay. You will find understanding parents, and you will find totally intolerant parents, and that also applies to religious or non-religious parents.

Any blanket assumption that all religions will react a certain way is stereotyping religions. Pretty much all religions have something resembling the 10 Commandments, and most all I know of have specific refferences to homosexual acts, being a sin. Even non-religious(those not regualarly practicing) still recognize there religous upbringing know what is or isn;t a sin. Knowing right from wrong, or deciding for yourself what is a sin is ones own choice.

I know you remember the study we argued about Dark, that gave the facts of gay lifestyle mental health issues, including suicide rates. It had proven the woes of the gay issues were not actually caused by the treatment from the religions but from other factors like failed relationships. This question you propose, goes back to that very issue, and you are again assuming religion is the root of all parents shunning away their gay children. The example you gave assumes all religions do this, and assumes that only they do this. Fact is, as many non-religious parnets will react the same way, in either tolerance or intorerance. IN SHORT, RELIGION AGAIN IS NOT THE BLAME PEOPLE ALL REACT DIFFERENTLY.

so G2 you really believe if religion didnt deem it a sin ppl would still react the way they do to homosexuality?? crazy...it was a born an evil as soon as it deemed it evil. Gays have been around as long as any other party and it wasnt "frowned upon" until mainstream religion (Christianity, Eslam (or if your western) Islam, Judaism ect.) deemed it so. I know because of my interest in all forms of human sexuality that for a fact. I will gladly give you places where u too can see how homosexuals at one time were treated as equals in society. I would much rather have a true conversation with you back in fourth than name call.

I do truly believe in my heart that you are not as hateful as some of your statements suggest sometimes. They come off more harsh because we are typing. In other words I know you wouldnt "gay bash" or kill someone.

Panda, I don;t know who taught you to read but exactly what did I say in my statement that equates to hate, gay bashing, or killing Gays? If you can find where I used a derogatory term for a gay person, or advocated violence or bashing anyplace, I'll resign from this board.

I mearly resoponded to a senerio presented, that was "one-sided and loaded" in terms of the senerio presented. What he discribes in a senerio that could be plugged into any set of parents, regardless of a religious foundation or not. Saturos will not let go of the fact he thinks religion is the root of woes, and problems, in the gay community. I have posted and shown him studies have proven this is not the case, and that the mental health issues in the gay lifestyle, are from within the lifestyle, not a religions outside of it. These are proven studies, that I did not make up, just like I didn;t make up the CDC statistics.

I never brought religion into the sybil shepard post, and I never brought it into this one. I commented about reactions being the same from religious or non-religous parents, to crimes or behaviors their kids may do. I commented a blanket assessment about sin is imposible because all religions are differnet concerning sin.