The Black Vault

To digress further, one could consider the possibility that the entirety of relative existence may be, in itself, a process to establish the nature of God. That's just one interpretation, of course.

But anyway, the perils of belief. . . We don't even have to limit ourselves to the perils of organized religion, but just belief in general. Isn't it being honest to say, most people's "knowledge" is really just hearsay that they have put their faith in? Of course, I understand that there are degrees of acceptability; One must discriminate when considering information. I highly doubt anyone here is fool enough to believe me, were I to claim the moon is made of green cheese.

So we have assumptions, rightly so, and proceed from those. Perhaps sometimes a wrong assumption gets mixed in with the rest, and can muck up a person's works, so to speak. Yet I would have liked to encompass science and religion both in the consideration of belief as much as possible, although it likely will seem transparently obvious to some which beliefs are superior and whether or not they are even beliefs at all. To that, I concede that I may be more or less obtusely broad in my approach.

I have been watching this thread from the beginning and decided to post on it for another view.

It appears to me (whether rightly or wrongly) that direct arguments against christianity and theism produce hardly any effect on the public; and freedom of thought is best promoted by the gradual illumination of men's minds which follows from the advance of science." -- Darwin

Beware of what is Illumination..or sometimes referred to as enlightenment. For when Karl Marx was to read Darwin...he declared that now men have the tool to take this further. For Marx was to realize that religion was his greatest threat. To remove men from God. And we see what came out of Karl Marx, Fredrick Engels and the Internationale. The Communist Party. This is the apex of modern man...the anti thesis of Religion to God hating government of men by reason,by logic, Illumination. And the Communists have killed, slaughtered, and murdered their way across this world to a bigger death toll than ever in the history of men. Illumination!!??? Wow!!

"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire

Wow!! As I recall it was Voltaire who declared that he would destroy Christianity with his pen in 50 years. Hows that hope and change working out there François-Marie Arouet...aka...Voltaire?? !!

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own - a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism." -- Einstein

This is a very ironic statement for a Jew with a knowledge of Jewish History into the Olde Testament. It does however fit well into Kabbalistic theology of the occult as well as gnostic patterns of thought.
A God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty??? This is getting the cart in front of the horse. The Word indicates that it is men who are in the image of God..not God reflecting human frailty. What Einstein is arguing for here is man as god..demigods. Which is Kaballah...Talmud...et al. This is man by logic and reason/illumination passing judgement on God. This is Ishmael...which is ironic for the line which came out of Issac. here we have a Jew..of the line of Issac...telling us that he has an Ishmaelite position and almost no one can tell this by his quote. Tell that Einstein is declaring the cart in front of the horse. Einstein has switched gods privily as did his people generations before him did. This is also an example of how and why the Hebrews went astray..;and switched doctrines as well as switched gods. Einstein carries on here this tradition of men.

Faith means not wanting to know what is true." -- Nietzsche

Wow!!! This coming from Friedrich Nietzsche?? Did not Friedrich Nietzsche wind up in a padded room or such??
Was Friedrich Nietzsche credited with this jewel..."When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you."

I wonder if he spent to much time staring into the abyss.

I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul. No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life – our desire to go on living . . . our dread of coming to an end." -- Edison

For many people in the flesh this is true. But for Believers no. While we have a kindred spirit with the flesh..as one ages and grows in the Word..the flesh has fewer and fewer attractions to us. Passing on is not as fearful as one would think. Passing on in the flesh is a natural occurrence..and not a dread. I would have thought a "Wise Man " like Edison would have understood this and not been so provincial in his thinking..so of the flesh.

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." -- Lincoln

What ?? This from the fellow credited with the speech about " A house divided cannot stand. From the book of Matthew
Someone needs to think this through a bit further.

"Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?" -- Arthur C. Clarke

This is incredibly dumb on the part of Arthur C. Clark..but it is textbook of what passes for wisdom and illumination today. This does not explain the fear and trembling which took place in the Anti God..anti religion nations like Soviet Russian and satellites. An irony to me that an intelligence and enlightened person like Aurthur C. Clark would avoid this view.
In these nations the state is god in this world. What is the name of the god of anti God nations?? The god of illumination..of enlightenment??

"Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies." -- Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson would sell you and me short here if this is his position. For Thomas Jefferson knew the history of the English Civil War and the role religion played in it. The Round heads ..the Puritans and the Cavaliers or Royalty loyal to the King. The King was pushing the feudal position of "Divine Right of Kings." The Puritans were pushing the Magna Carta and that the King was not Divine Right and only a man administering Just English Laws. That the King of the Puritans was in Heaven and not on the Throne of England.
When a King had clearly broken the law..the Magna Carta..did a people have a right to turn on their king. The Puritans and Oliver Cromwell had settled this question a hundred years before the American Revolution. For this was the historical justification for Americans turning on King George. And Jefferson would have known this.
Someone is attempting to leave out the lessons of history in order to promote a deistic man made tradition.

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile." -- Kurt Vonnegut

Kurt Vonnegut should know that under divine right of Kings or feudalism this is true..but fails to make the distinction here. When men of Faith understand this it has the ability to hold at bay the doctrine of Divine Right of Kings or Feudalism. This is historically demonstrable both in the Bible and in secular sources. Kurt Vonnegut is a gnostic illumination here and following the traditions of men of enlightenment.

Religion is based . . . mainly on fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race." -- Bertrand Russell

Bertrand Russell does not take the time to explain the difference in the anti god religion or the traditions of the Communist and their Atheist/anti god positions and fear.

This is very ironic for an intelligence and enlightenment like him
From Wiki..
Bertrand Arthur William Russell, 3rd Earl Russell, OM, FRS (18 May 1872 – 2 February 1970)

For he obviously lived in the time period to put this two and two together about the socialist/communists and their anti god history and fear that they put into their peoples.
Ironic to me that a intelligence like Bertrand Russel would not make this clear and plain.

This type of posting looks very intelligent and enlightened until you see the whole of history and what is missing from the "official versions"...ie..public education non standards.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Great, someone else who missed the point.

The quotes were only meant as a jumping-off point, not to be the thread's sole raison d'être. . . Plus I'm not much interested in reading your garbage anyway.

I mean, I could bother to go through it and point out the stupidity and arrogance of your post, but honestly? It feels like a fruitless chore.

I will say, though, that you do seem educated. Too bad for you education isn't synonymous with intelligence.

so basically,
you prefer living in the mystery..accepting it for what it is..and then going from there
that phrase, 'when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me', comes to mind
I get that

bionic wrote:so basically,
you prefer living in the mystery..accepting it for what it is..and then going from there
that phrase, 'when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me', comes to mind
I get that

I really do think you're a sweety too. And pretty darn smart and perceptive.

DIss0n80r wrote:Great, someone else who missed the point.

The quotes were only meant as a jumping-off point, not to be the thread's sole raison d'être. . . Plus I'm not much interested in reading your garbage anyway.

I must not have jumped in the authorized, controlled, censored direction.



To Believe

Be-exist

Lieve..life or love

to exist in life.

It does not imply just to be with a heart pumping but much more. To be living in that not seen.

or to put in as stated in the word.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

KJV

This is "Believed" by many and also Faith is the name of a person as well. Many "live" in this. They exist in living or Life in this.
Another of the names for Faith is Life...same for Believing ...to Believe. To be living in Falth, in Life. Life too ..for the "Believer is the name of a person.

It is interesting once one knows the pattern.

Thanks,
Orangetom

orangetom1999 wrote:

DIss0n80r wrote:Great, someone else who missed the point.

The quotes were only meant as a jumping-off point, not to be the thread's sole raison d'être. . . Plus I'm not much interested in reading your garbage anyway.

I must not have jumped in the authorized, controlled, censored direction.



To Believe

Be-exist

Lieve..life or love

to exist in life.

It does not imply just to be with a heart pumping but much more. To be living in that not seen.

or to put in as stated in the word.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

KJV

This is "Believed" by many and also Faith is the name of a person as well. Many "live" in this. They exist in living or Life in this.
Another of the names for Faith is Life...same for Believing ...to Believe. To be living in Falth, in Life. Life too ..for the "Believer is the name of a person.

It is interesting once one knows the pattern.

Thanks,
Orangetom

That's better. I actually am interested in your POV but not when it consists purely of condescending rhetoric. I like this post of yours. It is interesting to consider. I apologize for speaking too harshly when I was annoyed.