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What are your thoughts on DESTINY?

In this forum, questions are asked which are really tough to answer. Some philosophical, some regarding morality and many others. Have fun, and post your own personal tough questions!

Postby CodeBlackv2 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:51 pm

The default sex of many species, including humans, is female. It takes something extra to make a male. Nature is not perfect. That is why you get YY, XXY and other problems. Women normally have 2 X's but one dominates the other. In Men, the X tries to dominate the Y but fails because the Y hides from the X. It does this by dropping unnecessary genes to become as small as possible. That is why the Y chromo is nearly identical in all males.

It comes down to what a species needs to survive. In humans, males take most of the risks, fight the bear and the lion, which free's up women to concentrate on rearing children. But, as society progresses, there is less and less need for the qualities males provide, and that leads to my last post. It has nothing to do with an afterlife. Humans will figure out how to procreate without 2 sexes.

And that is what Jesus meant when he said, "Two will lie on a bed. One will live. The other will die." The women present thought it was they whom Jesus said would die but that was an assumption, and a wrong one. All of this has happened before. It is the natural progression of species. That is why Jesus was not predicting the future. He was quoting the past.
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Postby at1with0 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:52 am

It's a rhetorical battle between free will and destiny. A tradeoff if you will. They share a pool of potential energy, meaning that the cost of more of one of them is the other. To put it more simply, an abundance of free will leads to a lack of inevitability (destiny's influence) while inevitability implies a lack of free will. Concordantly, if what we perceive to be our free will (i.e., ability to make decisions) is merely an illusion and isn't genuinely there, then destiny exists in the sense that all events that happen were inevitable.

Thus, an important issue is whether or not free will is, at least in part, an illusion. Let's see... Do you have free will to disagree with me? :lol:

Visions can be acted upon in a way that invalidates the vision. For example, person A has a (alleged) precognitive event in which s/he observes person B getting into a car wreck in a white car. Person B can then choose to never enter a white car and Person B lives happily ever after, invalidating the vision. If everyone and everything has a fate then visions aren't an ironclad method of discerning what fate will be.

That of course brings us to the dichotomy of natural future versus altered future. The natural future is what will happen if the status quo's inertia is allowed to play out while the altered future is when the status quo's "velocity" is altered. For example, consider that vision. The natural future for person B was to die in a car wreck in a white car. The altered future for person B was to not die in a white car because person B decides to never enter a white car. The existence of fate is equivalent to the existence of the dichotomy.

In other words, there is such a thing as an altered future if and only if not all things are destined to be. I believe that it is abundantly evident that altered futures exist at all times. By that rationale, not all things are destined to be. Some things are inevitable but not everything is inevitable.



And now for a quote from Matrix Reloaded:
This conversation is about a vision Neo had of Trinity's death.
The Oracle: Do you see her die?
Neo: No.
The Oracle: You have the sight now, Neo. You are looking at the world without time.
Neo: Then why can't I see what happens to her?
The Oracle: We can never see past the choices we don't understand.
Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?
The Oracle: No, you've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it.
Neo: No. I can't do that. I won't.
The Oracle: Well, you have to.
Neo: Why?
The Oracle: Because you're the One.


Let's not forget about causality. If causality is a real phenomena, then the effects of the causes are inevitable. However, not all events are caused; some are uncaused. The existence of uncaused events is equivalent (i.e., equally true or false) to the existence of that which isn't inevitable (i.e., not all things that happen were destined to happen). Reality's existence is an uncaused event, establishing that there is at least one uncaused event which implies, then, that there exists something which is not inevitable. Another word for an uncaused event is random. The existence of randomness flies in the face of the inevitability of all things (destiny). And randomness can be defined and shown to exist both physically (think quanta) and mathematically (think incompressible strings and Kolmogorov complexity).
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Postby CodeBlackv2 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:07 pm

There are a lot of assumptions in your statements. No uncaused events? I've never seen one. Also, the universe is seldom constrained to A vs. B. There are usually many possibilities. Free will is a concept, not a universal law. I have seen prediction of the future. It is real. How the human mind is able to do this is as yet unknown but there are some interesting theories, quantum bio-entanglement. I see no reason to believe in multiple universes. If you have to invent another universe to make your math work out then chances are your math is wrong.

Theories about things like Dark Matter have been jumping around a lot and that is just one example of how we are a long way from understanding how the universe really works. But you can bet that when we do figure it out, the answer will be logical. It's inevitable.

Yes, I do have the free will to disagree because the laws of the universe allow my brain identify new concepts.

Example: person A on one side of the universe decides to do X. Because all things in the universe are connected, person B on the other side of the universe does the opposite of X, call it Y. This results in conservation of energy. Now what is the cause? Did person A cause person B or did person B cause person A? Persons A and B cannot tell. Its a causality loop. Seems like a chicken and egg scenario. But it is not. Whatever setup the arrangement and the connection between A and B is the true cause. Just because you can't find the cause does not mean there isn't one. And if the universe is completely causal then you have a universe whose fate can be determined.
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Postby CodeBlackv2 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:13 pm

One theory is that the universe is determinable but only at the end points. What happens between the beginning and the end is intermediate and because of conservation laws all decisions are possible. If you decide to do X, then the universe will compensate somewhere else. So, from a certain point of view, you have free will, while the universe is in operation.
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Postby at1with0 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:27 pm

CodeBlackv2 wrote:There are a lot of assumptions in your statements. No uncaused events? I've never seen one. Also, the universe is seldom constrained to A vs. B. There are usually many possibilities. Free will is a concept, not a universal law. I have seen prediction of the future. It is real. How the human mind is able to do this is as yet unknown but there are some interesting theories, quantum bio-entanglement. I see no reason to believe in multiple universes. If you have to invent another universe to make your math work out then chances are your math is wrong.


Of course. None of that contradicts what I said.
I take an "uncaused" event to be synonymous with "random" event.

Yes, I do have the free will to disagree because the laws of the universe allow my brain identify new concepts.

You were not destined to agree or disagree but, instead, your free will enabled you to choose.

Example: person A on one side of the universe decides to do X. Because all things in the universe are connected, person B on the other side of the universe does the opposite of X, call it Y. This results in conservation of energy. Now what is the cause? Did person A cause person B or did person B cause person A? Persons A and B cannot tell. Its a causality loop. Seems like a chicken and egg scenario. But it is not. Whatever setup the arrangement and the connection between A and B is the true cause. Just because you can't find the cause does not mean there isn't one. And if the universe is completely causal then you have a universe whose fate can be determined.

I am not sure where you're going with this example but didn't you say earlier that the universe is seldom constrained to X vs Y?

One theory is that the universe is determinable but only at the end points. What happens between the beginning and the end is intermediate and because of conservation laws all decisions are possible. If you decide to do X, then the universe will compensate somewhere else. So, from a certain point of view, you have free will, while the universe is in operation.


If there is that indeterminacy, then destiny flies out the window in agreement with what I said (though for entirely different reasons).
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Postby bionic » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:42 pm

And that is what Jesus meant when he said, "Two will lie on a bed. One will live. The other will die." The women present thought it was they whom Jesus said would die but that was an assumption, and a wrong one. All of this has happened before. It is the natural progression of species. That is why Jesus was not predicting the future. He was quoting the past.


that is pretty deep and thought provoking..though..not sure we will even needs wombs pretty soon
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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Postby at1with0 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:47 pm

Indeed, but which one? :think:
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Postby bionic » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:33 pm

probably some gene spliced Gattica style hybrid creature, keeping both male and female parts simply for recreational sport..for a while at least
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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Postby at1with0 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:36 pm

Can I have some of what you're having? Just a taste, c'mon! To whet my appetite.
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Postby CodeBlackv2 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:38 pm

at1with0 wrote:Of course. None of that contradicts what I said.
I take an "uncaused" event to be synonymous with "random" event.

Cryptographers use celestial phenomenon as random number generators, but common sense tells one that those events have a cause.

at1with0 wrote:You were not destined to agree or disagree but, instead, your free will enabled you to choose.

Pretty sure I was destined to disagree. It's just in my nature.

at1with0 wrote:I am not sure where you're going with this example but didn't you say earlier that the universe is seldom constrained to X vs Y?

Only to show that just because we cannot determine the exact cause of an event does not mean that there isn't one.

at1with0 wrote:If there is that indeterminacy, then destiny flies out the window in agreement with what I said (though for entirely different reasons).

Not quite. It just means that the point at which the inevitability becomes realized is moved further out in time.

As for what Bionic is talking about, I hope it doesn't become an Olympic sport.
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