The Oracle: Do you see her die?
The Oracle: You have the sight now, Neo. You are looking at the world without time.
Neo: Then why can't I see what happens to her?
The Oracle: We can never see past the choices we don't understand.
Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?
The Oracle: No, you've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it.
Neo: No. I can't do that. I won't.
The Oracle: Well, you have to.
The Oracle: Because you're the One.
CodeBlackv2 wrote:There are a lot of assumptions in your statements. No uncaused events? I've never seen one. Also, the universe is seldom constrained to A vs. B. There are usually many possibilities. Free will is a concept, not a universal law. I have seen prediction of the future. It is real. How the human mind is able to do this is as yet unknown but there are some interesting theories, quantum bio-entanglement. I see no reason to believe in multiple universes. If you have to invent another universe to make your math work out then chances are your math is wrong.
Yes, I do have the free will to disagree because the laws of the universe allow my brain identify new concepts.
Example: person A on one side of the universe decides to do X. Because all things in the universe are connected, person B on the other side of the universe does the opposite of X, call it Y. This results in conservation of energy. Now what is the cause? Did person A cause person B or did person B cause person A? Persons A and B cannot tell. Its a causality loop. Seems like a chicken and egg scenario. But it is not. Whatever setup the arrangement and the connection between A and B is the true cause. Just because you can't find the cause does not mean there isn't one. And if the universe is completely causal then you have a universe whose fate can be determined.
One theory is that the universe is determinable but only at the end points. What happens between the beginning and the end is intermediate and because of conservation laws all decisions are possible. If you decide to do X, then the universe will compensate somewhere else. So, from a certain point of view, you have free will, while the universe is in operation.
And that is what Jesus meant when he said, "Two will lie on a bed. One will live. The other will die." The women present thought it was they whom Jesus said would die but that was an assumption, and a wrong one. All of this has happened before. It is the natural progression of species. That is why Jesus was not predicting the future. He was quoting the past.
at1with0 wrote:Of course. None of that contradicts what I said.
I take an "uncaused" event to be synonymous with "random" event.
at1with0 wrote:You were not destined to agree or disagree but, instead, your free will enabled you to choose.
at1with0 wrote:I am not sure where you're going with this example but didn't you say earlier that the universe is seldom constrained to X vs Y?
at1with0 wrote:If there is that indeterminacy, then destiny flies out the window in agreement with what I said (though for entirely different reasons).
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