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The Bible ~ spiritually inspired?

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Postby event_horizon » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:58 pm

I'd still like to know what the hologram fans think about the concept of other holographic beings existing on other planets. Are we the only ones?...and if so, is the rest of the universe just an illusion?...made by the "creator" just to trick 20th century humans into thinking the universe is indeed a physical reality?
I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what logic and reason cause me to believe. All I want is to live with the truth -- nothing more, nothing less.
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Postby frrostedman » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:33 pm

event_horizon wrote:I'd still like to know what the hologram fans think about the concept of other holographic beings existing on other planets. Are we the only ones?...and if so, is the rest of the universe just an illusion?...made by the "creator" just to trick 20th century humans into thinking the universe is indeed a physical reality?

I believe there are beings that live on other planets. I don't know what their purpose is, but I suspect that most if not all of them are those who serve God's arch nemises. The fallen angels as it were and perhaps even other raced of beings created through the use of technology, i.e. "planet seeding."
"But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about Jesus being a great teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." C.S. Lewis
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Postby shadowcass » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:54 pm

event_horizon wrote:I'd still like to know what the hologram fans think about the concept of other holographic beings existing on other planets. Are we the only ones?...and if so, is the rest of the universe just an illusion?...made by the "creator" just to trick 20th century humans into thinking the universe is indeed a physical reality?


Well, I'll tell you...there was a guy I used to date that was always scribblind down poetry and stories and junk like that---I think his name was "Eddie"---anyway he was always going up to people, poking them in the chest with his forefinger and muttering "Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream?"

Most people thought he was RAVIN' mad but I'm not sure.

But consider the story told by Osho (aka Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh) whom many people accuse of being a con man and a scam artist and a kind of mystical magical mugger of the unguarded truth-seeker.
(Or maybe he just knew the basic thing about humans---that they are entirely unable to value anything---including wisdom---unless it costs them something).

Well, anyway, he has a story about the Buddha which seems to fit here:



Osho : Once it happened: Buddha entered a village. A man asked him as he was entering the village, "Does God exist?" He said, "No, absolutely no."

In the afternoon another man came and he asked, "Does God exist?" And he said, "Yes, absolutely yes."

In the evening a third man came and he asked, "Does God exist?" Buddha closed his eyes and remained utterly silent. The man also closed his eyes. Something transpired in that silence. After a few minutes the man touched Buddha's feet, bowed down, paid his respects and said, "You are the first man who has answered my question."

Now, Buddha's attendant, Ananda, was very much puzzled: "In the morning he said no, in the afternoon he said yes, in the evening he did not answer at all. What is the matter? What is really the truth?"

So when Buddha was going to sleep, Ananda said, "First you answer me; otherwise I will not be able to sleep. You have to be a little more compassionate towards me too. I have been with you the whole day. Those three people don't know about the other answers, but I have heard all the three answers. What about me? I am troubled."

Buddha said, "I was not talking to you at all! You had not asked, I had not answered YOU. The first man who came was a theist, the second man who came was an atheist, the third man who came was an agnostic. My answer had nothing to do with God, my answer had something to do with the questioner. I was answering the questioner; it was absolutely unconcerned with God.

"The person who believes in God, I will say no to him because I want him to drop his idea of God, I want him to be free of his idea of God -- which is borrowed. He has not experienced. If he had experienced he would not have asked me; there would have been no need.

"The person who believed in God, he was trying to find confirmation for his belief from me. I was not going to say yes to him -- I am not going to confirm anybody's belief. I had to say no, I had to deny, just to destroy his belief, because all beliefs are barriers to knowing the truth. Theist or atheist, all beliefs, Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, all beliefs are barriers.

"And the person with whom I remained silent was the right inquirer. He had no belief, hence there was no question of destroying anything. I kept silent. That was my message to him: Be silent and know. Don't ask, there is no need to ask. It is not a question which can be answered. It is not an inquiry but a quest, a thirst. Be silent and know.

I had answered him also; through my silence I gave him the message and he immediately followed it -- he also became silent. I closed my eyes, he closed his eyes; I looked in, he looked in, and then something transpired. That's why he was so much overwhelmed, he felt so much gratitude, for the simple reason that I did not give him any intellectual answer. He had not come for any intellectual answer; intellectual answers are available very cheap. He needed something existential -- he needed a taste. I gave him a taste."

I kind of like that one.

Oh, to answer your question horizon...yes everything is a hologram

or maybe I'm crackers...holo graham crackers....
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Postby rath » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:47 am

shadowcass, after reading your post it comes accross, that you advocate lying and deceiving about the existence or nonexistence of god inorder to spiritually enslaved people.

Believing in a god or not believing in a god just because you are told two.

Leads to a meaningless understanding of faith & religion, & to a meaningless death aswell.

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?" And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." (Matthew 16:13-14)


15He said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?’ 16Simon Peter answered, ‘You are the Messiah,* the Son of the living God.’ 17' And Jesus answered him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven. 18' And I tell you, you are Peter,* and on this rock* I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19' I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.’ 20' Then he sternly ordered the disciples not to tell anyone that he was* the Messiah.*
Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection
21' From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and undergo great suffering at the hands of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. 22' And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, ‘God forbid it, Lord! This must never happen to you.’ 23But he turned and said to Peter, ‘Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling-block to me; for you are setting your mind not on divine things but on human things.’
The Cross and Self-Denial
24' Then Jesus told his disciples, ‘If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it. 26 'For what will it profit them if they gain the whole world but forfeit their life? Or what will they give in return for their life?
27 ‘For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has been done.


Matthew 17

17'Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. 2And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. 3Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. 4Then Peter said to Jesus, ‘Lord, it is good for us to be here; if you wish, I* will make three dwellings* here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.’ 5While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud overshadowed them, and from the cloud a voice said, ‘This is my Son, the Beloved;* with him I am well pleased; listen to him!’ 6


9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus ordered them, ‘Tell no one about the vision until after the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.’ 10And the disciples asked him, ‘Why, then, do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?’ 11He replied, ‘Elijah is indeed coming and will restore all things; 12but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but they did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man is about to suffer at their hands.’ 13Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them about John the Baptist.
Jesus Cures a Boy with a Demon
14 When they came to the crowd, a man came to him, knelt before him, 15and said, ‘Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and he suffers terribly; he often falls into the fire and often into the water. 16And I brought him to your disciples, but they could not cure him.’ 17Jesus answered, ‘You faithless and perverse generation, how much longer must I be with you? How much longer must I put up with you?
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Postby shadowcass » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:49 am

Rath says "shadowcass, after reading your post it comes across, that you advocate lying and deceiving about the existence or nonexistence of god inorder to spiritually enslaved people.

Believing in a god or not believing in a god just because you are told to."

**********************************************************************
Rath, your PERCEPTION of what I am saying is incorrect. But I understand why that is. You are so completely captured by the BIBLICAL view of God that you have difficulty following the discussion.

Let me see if I can explain it better.

The quotation from Osho given in my previous post has NOTHING to do with whether God exists or doesn't exist. It has EVERYTHING to do with ridding ourselves of our conceptions ABOUT God.

Let us look into the nature of the word "Conception" What is it to CONCEIVE? Aside from the primary meaning which is "to become pregnant."
But we are talking about IDEAS. We conceive...that is, we form an idea ABOUT God---a mental image of what God IS---or, more commonly, we INHERIT the conceptions of OTHERS of what God is---and then we say we know the nature of God.
YOU "know" God only through the writings of others---the texts collectively called the New Testament. But just reading and memorizing texts doesn't inform you as to what God IS. All you get from that are second hand CONCEPTS of what God seemed to be LIKE to those who had experienced a relationship with "God."

God is LIKE a father---in the relationship of a father with his childen.
But the Bible also tells us that God is LIKE a Mother Hen:

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"---Matthew 23:27

Now, is God a Cosmic Chicken?

I have a feeling I'm about to be stoned for blasphemy here. But try to understand.

In Osho's story about the Buddha the idea is that if you want to truly experience God you must first rid yourself of all these PRE-conceptions ABOUT God.

If you don't---there is no room in you for the REALITY.
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Postby SmokinJoe » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:46 pm

rath,

The Buddha lesson isn't about the existence of God or nonexistence. It's about the person asking the questions.



Buddha said, "I was not talking to you at all! You had not asked, I had not answered YOU. The first man who came was a theist, the second man who came was an atheist, the third man who came was an agnostic. My answer had nothing to do with God, my answer had something to do with the questioner. I was answering the questioner; it was absolutely unconcerned with God.

"The person who believes in God, I will say no to him because I want him to drop his idea of God, I want him to be free of his idea of God -- which is borrowed. He has not experienced. If he had experienced he would not have asked me; there would have been no need.



As a personal example, I use to be agnostic. I had experiences that have shown me that there is an afterlife and a Creator. So, I would never need to go and ask the question "Does God exist." This is what Buddha was talking about.

Those who just read the Bible here and there and don't attempt to find the inner soul that is connected to the Creator will always be the one who asks "Does God exist."

The whole point is to experience firsthand. It'd be like reading a book about skydiving, without ever skydiving yourself. Book knowledge is one thing and experience is another. Combing both increases your understanding.
Dawkins thinks belief in God is an excuse to evade thinking in the scientific world. Sadly, he is ignorant to the list of christian scientists who have contributed & founded many of the sciences he himself believes in. How ironic.
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Postby orangetom1999 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:05 pm

Interesting position taken here by SmokinJoe and I agree. It is about the person asking the questions.

This reminds me of what I thought whey trying to read the Poimandres and Hermes Trismegistus.

The point of the person asking the questions also reminds me of this famous statement.

"Ye shall not surely die:
"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"Ye shall not surely die:"

Thanks,
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Postby rath » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:04 pm

shadowcass wrote:Rath says "shadowcass, after reading your post it comes across, that you advocate lying and deceiving about the existence or nonexistence of god inorder to spiritually enslaved people.

Believing in a god or not believing in a god just because you are told to."

**********************************************************************
Rath, your PERCEPTION of what I am saying is incorrect. But I understand why that is. You are so completely captured by the BIBLICAL view of God that you have difficulty following the discussion.


You are so completely captured by the BIBLICAL view of God


nobody has told me that before.

& for the record i think the Bible ... ( all of them ) Torah, Koran are full of lies & decite.

But that is not to say God is a lie.


SmokinJoe wrote:rath,

The Buddha lesson isn't about the existence of God or nonexistence. It's about the person asking the questions.


Buddha said, "I was not talking to you at all! You had not asked, I had not answered YOU. The first man who came was a theist, the second man who came was an atheist, the third man who came was an agnostic. My answer had nothing to do with God, my answer had something to do with the questioner. I was answering the questioner; it was absolutely unconcerned with God.

"The person who believes in God, I will say no to him because I want him to drop his idea of God, I want him to be free of his idea of God -- which is borrowed. He has not experienced. If he had experienced he would not have asked me; there would have been no need.



As a personal example, I use to be agnostic. I had experiences that have shown me that there is an afterlife and a Creator. So, I would never need to go and ask the question "Does God exist." This is what Buddha was talking about.

Those who just read the Bible here and there and don't attempt to find the inner soul that is connected to the Creator will always be the one who asks "Does God exist."

The whole point is to experience firsthand. It'd be like reading a book about skydiving, without ever skydiving yourself. Book knowledge is one thing and experience is another. Combing both increases your understanding.


They not mutually exclusive ...... why do you think manking invented christian scientist's

Does God exist? ... is not the same question as' who or what is god?


Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?" And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." (Matthew 16:13-14)


The son of man ???


15' He said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?


So whome do you think he is ?


Or does that not matter because he is who you think he is.


Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. 2And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. 3Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. 4Then Peter said to Jesus, ‘Lord, it is good for us to be here; if you wish, I* will make three dwellings* here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.


Buddha may well fit that mould aswell.




But these questions only raise more questions as always.


Is there a God ......

What is a God ......

Are we Gods Creations .......

Or Are we whats left of Gods creations gone wrong.



How big is the Universe ........


Are we the dominant specie on the planet.

Or are we ants in living under a rock called earth in the garden of another.


& does our new found perception make God any more or Any less real.
Last edited by rath on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby frrostedman » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:26 pm

shadowcass wrote:But every once in awhile some mystic comes along with a different vision of this being we are calling God.

...

David Boem in his theory on the Implicate Order called him "The Player on the Other Side"


I believe Bohm and I believe the bible.

And I'm not bigoted.

By the way shadowcass, if you haven't already, you should look into Dr. Karl Pribram's theory on the brain. In his studies, he has concluded that the brain functions exactly like a hologram. You can probably google "Pribram brain hologram" and pick up some nice hits. It's fascinating and pretty compelling evidence he presents, in my opinion.

I have a book called "The Holographic Universe" (which was referenced by another book I love so that's how I found out about it) and much of the book is based on the works of Bohm and Pribram.
"But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about Jesus being a great teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." C.S. Lewis
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Postby shadowcass » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:58 pm

Oh, well..as to the "holographic universe". The fact is that we are all streams of data---codons (Genetic Code) in strands of DNA. And code is code is code irrespective of the platform or CPU it is being run on...that much seems pretty obvious.

If you'd like to hear a lively discussion between Mathematician Ralph Abraham, Biologist Rupert Sheldrake, and the late Terence McKenna just click the link to open your media player http://www.sheldrake.org/Trialogues/trialogues_98-2.mp3 (This three-way conversation...aka "trialogue" is entitled "Consciousness and Machines")

As for IS there a God?

Some say "Yes"
Others say "No"
Still others say "Maybe"

I say it is a question each of us has to answer for him or herself.

And not just a question but a QUEST for that which will inform, enhance, enrich our lives and give them shape and meaning.

We can debate it until the cows come home...and then we can debate it with the cows.

But that would be to miss the point.

It is not a question that can be answerd for you by another. Not the Pope nor Stephen Hawking can answer it for you.

All THEY can tell you is what they THINK.

But this is YOUR Quest and you need to find your OWN answer.

“I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said “What do I see, O Lord? That it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?”

The Savior said to me, “He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me.”

But I, when I had looked, said “Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place.”

But he said to me, “I have told you, ‘Leave the blind alone!’. And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame.”

And I saw someone about to approach us resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree. And he was <filled> with a Holy Spirit, and he is the Savior. And there was a great, ineffable light around them, and the multitude of ineffable and invisible angels blessing them. And when I looked at him, the one who gives praise was revealed.”

—The Apocalypse of Peter

—Codex VII, Nag Hammadi Library
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