The Black Vault

Nesaie wrote:Illuminati, yes libertarian. I have been for years. I like the Constitution and believe it is worth fighting for. I support gun ownership of as many law abiding citizens as possible (so long as the individuals choose to own a gun and all the responsibility that goes along with it). I believe that legislation cannot legislate morality, as Jefferson said. Less government and no government intrusion into personal lives.

And for the exact same reasons, not trying to bring it back up here, is why I also defend the rights, as Libertarians do, to protect the rights of those who have no voice to speak for themselves, the unborn.

I have been a Libertarian since I was able to vote and a member of of the LP-WI since I moved out here two years ago. I was active in Southern CA for many years as well as Nevada, supporting Aaron Russo's campaign for Governorship a few years back.

Are you more minarchist or anarchist?

CodeBlack.
Speaking of nimrods I had a bout with Senator Russ Feingold when he did one of his round table Wisconsin public Q & A's. He was preaching that many of the top economists support Obama's bailout plans and future spending stimulus bills and that this in turn confirmed his choice in supporting Obama and the bailouts, past and future. So I asked him a question: "Could you tell me the names of any of these many famous Economists who agree with President Obama because as far as the most notable Economists I know of reject government intervention and spending on the open market, anti-nationalization of private businesses and mass bailout spending?". His response was that he could not tell me right off hand, then proceeded to ask me for any information of some notable economists who disagree with the President. I responded with a list from the Mises Institute, to which he responded he never heard of any of them. Apparently he never even heard of Ludwig Von Mises, let alone Professor Sciabarra from New York University or Llew Rockwell. The I asked the question that got me almost kicked out fo the meeting. "So, are you educated in Economics, Senator Feingold?" he said no. I then stated "So how can you vote on any issue regarding Economic Stimulus bills when you yourself just admitted to not knowing anything how our economy works then?" His secretary responded with a "next question please". Since I was outnumbered by local college Democratic Students cheering him on I was forced to step down.

Yep, spot on. We aren't going to get anything out of the Republicans. They are drinking the big government cool-aid, have been for a long time. That is the problem with all governments. Anybody in government just wants more power and that means growing the government. It is seldom that we see an exception. No politician wants to tear down the things he is supposed to be running. The system has an inherent flaw.

Always gets me that liberals bash the private sector for something and then applaud the government doing the exact same thing.

When I was in college I went to a Republican event with Oliver North as the speaker. Very fiery, very patriotic as you would expect. I thought it was a bit too much flag waving which didn't address any real topic. That's ultimately why he wasn't a viable candidate. But, the REPs that were there did not like me being there at all. They gave me scowls from the moment I walked in, not knowing I was a veteran perhaps? They watched me closely the whole time. I was honestly interested in hearing Ollie. I was not one of those upset about the Iran Contra thing. Hell I thought it was a good idea. I still don't know why they were worried about me but it was unmistakable. Last time I went to Republican event. They weren't interested in attracting anyone. And this was at a military university no less! Maybe they thought I was a heckler.

Illuminati wrote:

Nesaie wrote:Illuminati, yes libertarian. I have been for years. I like the Constitution and believe it is worth fighting for. I support gun ownership of as many law abiding citizens as possible (so long as the individuals choose to own a gun and all the responsibility that goes along with it). I believe that legislation cannot legislate morality, as Jefferson said. Less government and no government intrusion into personal lives.

And for the exact same reasons, not trying to bring it back up here, is why I also defend the rights, as Libertarians do, to protect the rights of those who have no voice to speak for themselves, the unborn.

Ah, the irony here is that Roe vs. Wade is based on the Fourth Amendment, which doesn't specifically mention the right to privacy, but has always (last I looked) been interpreted as a right to privacy under certain conditions.

But, that is a whole different can of worms, which truly has nothing to do with Libertarians. It has everything to do with pulling emotional strings.

Illuminati wrote:I have been a Libertarian since I was able to vote and a member of of the LP-WI since I moved out here two years ago. I was active in Southern CA for many years as well as Nevada, supporting Aaron Russo's campaign for Governorship a few years back.

Are you more minarchist or anarchist?

Anarchistic-Libertarian

We don't need government, they need us.

Aaron Russo, eh? Interesting...

CodeBlack wrote: Yep, spot on. We aren't going to get anything out of the Republicans. They are drinking the big government cool-aid, have been for a long time. That is the problem with all governments. Anybody in government just wants more power and that means growing the government. It is seldom that we see an exception. No politician wants to tear down the things he is supposed to be running. The system has an inherent flaw.

So true! Our Founding Fathers new this! This is the WHOLE reason for our Constitution!

CodeBlack wrote:Always gets me that liberals bash the private sector for something and then applaud the government doing the exact same thing.

I get called liberal around here a lot. I just figure it's by people who don't know the meaning of the word. I can be called a "classical liberal", as our Founding Fathers were.

I have no problem with the private sector, so long as (like illegals), they don't get special benefits. So long as there isn't special legislation created that only benefits them. So long as they don't steal more of my money. Unfortunately, modern day corporations have a lot in common with illegals. They're protected by the fascist government. They get extra benefits by the fascist government. They're not accountable to laws, by this fascist government. Ahhh, the list goes on and on about the similarities.

Yep, any system no matter how noble its design will fail if its run by corrupt people. I think it was Jefferson who said that. Bad people do bad things and no system can absolutely prevent that. Welcome to Newmerica.

...and a "classic liberal" has a problem with G-d and Country? or is that Judaic G-d and Country?....Judeao-Christian G-d and Country? Christian G-d 'n Country? Where did the saying on the Liberty Bell come from?....was that a Judaic-Christian Bible you say? Damn! That's a "Classic" bell ain't it? It just ain't cracked up to what it used to be. It's gotta be the rivets. Go figure some founding knuckle head didn't know his Book from a hole in the ground.

I have no problem with God. I even believe in God in the same way that Thomas Paine did. In fact, his writings converted me to Deism. Thomas Jefferson has even been called a Deist, and in later years was a self proclaimed Unitarian. He'd have gone to the same church I do, when I choose to go to church.

G-d is NOT Christian, God is Christian. G-d is modern judaism.

I have a problem with people trashing Muslims. My constitution says that all are free to believe in any religion, well that isn't a quote from the First Amendment. It' my understanding of the First Amendment.

I also have a problem with the Commie Russians who came to this country in the early 20th century and spoke Yiddish, a Germanic language (not Semitic), who were descendants of Turks/Mongols (AKA Mongoloids) and cry "pity me...I'm a jew...race card...".

I hate Communism! I hate those who play "pity me because of my race, share your hard earned money with me, I deserve it because of my race".

BTW, for one who obviously isn't familiar with reading the writings of the Founding Fathers and the Constitution, the God referred to is the God of NATURE. God has NO RELIGION, God is God.

As far as your "country" reference, I love this country, I will fight for it and the Constitution when it comes down to it. The current illegitimate government, infiltrated by the commies, the russian Mongoloids (as you'd like to call them Jews, but they're not Jews by any definition) well, they can all burn in hell. They're the reason my country is in the mess it is and most Americans don't see it because of the propaganda.

I hate the fact that Commies took over the Republican party! I hate the fact that they're now going to change the Democrats too. Watch Spector.

Me hate g-d? What is that? Me hate God, nope...God is That's it!

I never said G-d had a particular religion, I know way better than that Dear rashness and the saying on the Liberty Bell IS extracted from the Christian Bible, high evidence of a Judaeo-Christian influence; so "Deist" or not, there is a Judaeo-Christian influence in early American politics. Specifically at the Founding of America w/ the United States Constitution having as a marker for an ethical and moral social benchmark the Biblical Judaeo-Christian influence....the 10 Commandment one? This might not set in some craws very well but it is stapled in history. How ever YOU want to define G-d from the deist viewl or other wise; 'Till the ACLU/ gets "In God We Trust" off the buck, the trace evidence of this country's beginning moral benchmarks remain...and on the Liberty Bell as well....and other inconvenient spots.

Did you ever consider what the thinking of these men was before the wondrous progress of scientific thinking started to really "rev up" in the 18 century prior to Charles Darwin? It is important to remember that when the Constitution was written, the only possible explanation for the existence of the Universe was special creation. They knew no other scientific information then as we do now. Therefore, all of the delegates at the Philadelphia convention were creationist. Agnostic attitudes hardly crossed the minds of the majority in their times except for the selfish. Social existentialism wasn't even a glint in Carl Marx's eye until 1818. No secularist today seems to even consider this. What the secularists today think or consider has no bearing on what was. There is no rationale that can change that fact. It's stapled in history. Yet America was born and it worked.

As for a people who have been convinced of their Islamic heritage being It; I give them the same advice I would give a Bible thumpin' Jim Jones about mesmerizing doggerel and narrow mindedness. To wit: one source of information does not a clever Muslim make.

By the way, the Judaic ethical and moral benchmark has even been imitated by the Islamic religion of Mohamed's own confession when, and this is only one example, declaring his Abrahamic roots. The ethical and moral benchmark he has sorely implemented stands out brightly in the civil behavior of non-barbaric Muslims (my favorite kind) and the reason this moral and ethical benchmark has proven the most successful of any in history for a myriad of societies is because it is meant to encourage, not coerce, civil behavior in societies; today stretching from Iceland to new Zealand for better than a couple of hundred years. Care to know what peoples share credit for that?...not the "Russian Mongoloids" as you call them...but maybe that's just too bright and inconvenient to look at these days...it must be the torch She carries.

Your country is in a mess for a lack of charachter due to its denizens not using a sturdy ethical and moral compass in their commerce and otherwise.

Making Plans For Nigel
The GOV is only making plans for you. You only need a helping hand. The GOV knows what's best for you. Your whole future is as good as sealed. Orwell must be happy, must be happy, must be happy.