To be honest you might not find much on Krampus. It falls under the realm of Santa
Claus folklore which wasn't well reserached or thought about because it was generally thought for a long time to come soley from St. Nicholas.
There is however a bit of info coming from this history book on the subject, though admittedly it could use quite a bit more research. This is an excerpt from it: http://books.google.com/books?id=hkw2bP ... q=&f=false
I'm buying that book. I was getting into it, and kept watching the scroll, all of a sudden it tricked me and went from the middle to nothing left. That is a book every household should have, are there any others like it you would recommend? Looked like I was only able to read through about 25 pages, does that sound correct? Wish the entire text was online, because now I'll be waiting for it in the mail.- and I just so happen to be moving here next week, so I might have to wait another week. How accurate do you believe some of the information? Looks like there are alot of new devolpments into this, as you said, for so long Santa
Claus was thought to come straight from St. Nicholas. Which prior to this I did have some inclinations that was not the case, although this book opened up alot of other possibilities. Its interesting how many resources were used to compile the book.
The 1826 account of a Bellsnickle took me for a surprise. The Bellsnickle had moccasins the same as worn by the Chippewa (ojibwe) nation. I couldn't believe that was in there.
And The description of his cap made of porcupine quills and painted a fiery red, having
two folds at each side reminded me of the porky roach that is used in all styles of Native American dances.
However then I realised that the MicMac were excellent quill workers, and I had remembered seeing
what they call a 'peaked cap'. Almost could not find a picture, but I managed to find 2.
Now this one is from around 1812.
"This image of a young Passamaquoddy woman depicts her in traditional dress of the time. She wears a peaked cap and dress made from red trade cloth and sewn with glass beads and silk ribbon. Notice the soldiers drilling on the parade ground through the window."
Now check out the one from around the time of the Bellsnickle. Actually it states it was collected early 1910 or something.http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/aborig/stones/clothing/i06257.shtml
That peaked cap is in a Canadian Museum, I'd love to know the appraisal on something like that.
Because even modern quill work can cost a fortune!
"The Mi'kmaq and Maliseets did not adopt all European materials and artifacts. Although their way of life changed dramatically during the 1500s, they continued to require clothing and equipment appropriate for travelling, hunting, fishing and trapping.
During the contact period, and up to the present day, a number of the decorative techniques of the Indians became popular with European collectors and other customers. Etched birchbark and embroidery using dyed porcupine quills, wampum and moose-hair were especially sought after.
That link above shows an outfit made with quill work around the 1840s as well.
With the mention of the Bellsnickle wearing moccasins and quills, I went off in all sorts of directions.
I'm still digging at the Perchta information, just after reading the first two pages, and noting that
Perchta was known as the 'maker of snow', and affiliated with the some of the Goddesses such as Selene, Diana, and Artemis, along with reading some of Jacob Grimm- I couldn't quit thinking of 'Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs'http://comminfo.rutgers.edu/professional-development/childlit/snowwhite.html
Which I noted a story similar of that from the 1800's and much earlier by the Cherokee Nation, and some of their beliefs in
what Native Americans call 'The Little People (fairies/elves/dwarfs/all that stuff)
"The seven men took the rods and the box and traveled west for seven days until they came to the Darkening Land. There they found a great crowd of ghost having a dance, just as if they were alive. The Sun's daughter was in the outside circle. As she danced past them, one of the seven men struck her with his rod, and then another and another, until at the seventh round she fell out of the ring. The men put her into the box and closed the lid, and the other ghost never seem to notice what had happened."
Which has similarities to that of Orpheus and Eurydice.http://www.bartleby.com/181/241.html
And that of Proserpinehttp://www.bartleby.com/181/071.html
There are still many pages I have left to read of the Perchta information, because as you can tell, I get side tracked.
BTW I noticed the dance you mentioned was harvest dance like I said trick or treating and caroling. We might be looking at paleolithic cultural survivals as well as cultural diffusion. This is interesting.
Yeah I started looking into some of the history of this, and hadn't realised that wassailing is OE and could predate
1066. Wassailing was done to ward of evil spirits, much the same as putting on masks to be mistaken for one of the same, and not be taken by any evil spirits ...trick or treating. And the Krampus along with many others really fall into those categories, of creating rukuss etc etc. Aquatank what do you think about the history of wassailing? Do you believe it is Old Norse?
I remember reading a fiction book called Runestone
-Don Coldsmith about a party from Erikson's group exploring inland. It brought up fairies/elves and the Native response in that was that the Native Americans had them too. Is that response just fiction I wonder. Also note the global use of burial mounds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial_Mounds
Did both groups already have established beliefs in such?
All the Native Tribes that I am aware of have Little People Legends.http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legen ... rokee.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_people_(mythology
(sometimes described with little horns on their heads)http://www.legendsofamerica.com/wy-littlepeople.html
Here was a good article I read on a site I had added in nightwolfs bigfoot thread.
It ties in the Windigo, Bigfoot, and the little people.
"The Iroquois (Six Nations Confederacy) of the Northeast -- although they live in close proximity to the eastern Algonkian tribes with their Windigo legends -- view Bigfoot much in the same way the Hopi do, as a messenger from the Creator trying to warn humans to change their ways or face disaster. However, mentioned among Iroquois much more often than Bigfoot are the "little people" who are said to inhabit the Adirondacks mountains. I never heard any first-hand stories among the Iroqouis about encounters with these "little people" -- for that matter, I never heard and first-hand stories in that region about Bigfoot, either -- but the Iroquois pass down stories about hunters who occasionally saw small human-like beings in the Adirondacks (which are not all that far from the Catskills, where Rip Van Winkle was alleged to have met some little bowlers) (and slept for 100 years -HF). Some present-day Iroquois assert that the "little people" are still there, just not seen as often because the Iroquois don't spend as much time hunting up in the mountains as they used to. many Iroquois seem to regard both Bigfoot and the "little people" as spiritual or interdimensional beings who can enter or leave our physical dimension as they please, and choose to whom they present themselves, always for a reason."
I'm really starting to question, how much are these stories influenced by
other peoples? Aquatank, what are some of the oldest stories you know about elves/fairies and the type?
The wiki reference to the burial mounds reminded me of the Turkish Temple that was just
newly discovered. And I have little history knowledge of the steppe peoples. I'd like to spend
more time looking into the history of burial mounds, as I am still even wondering where the history of burial rituals come from that are used by my specific tribe. We build 'coffin' like homes made of cedar wood, that are called 'spirit homes' and a little shelf gets built on the sides, along with a hole on one end of the wood home with a small 'porch' that we place food offerings. Whats interesting is when my grandmother passed I dreamt I was in a house of hers that was very little, she wanted me to come in, and I told her that I
couldn't, because I wouldn't fit. She insisted, so I did, and it was amasingly an entire house where she had lived, with many things. Years later when I became older, on Memorial day I visited her grave site, and yep, that was the little home I had visited. When I had that dream I had no idea of the 'spirit homes' used in the burial process of my people.
Anyways I just shared that, because its rare knowledge, these spirit homes that are built for our passing ones. Enough rambling now.