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$3B to end royalty dispute with Indian Tribes!!!

As the 2012 election is now over, Barack Obama has won a second term. Many wonder how his policies, his administration, and how the entire political arena, will change our future.

Postby gudskepteacal » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:11 pm

I'm starting to believe more and more that this is the primary method of operation for the international super-elites and any other 'beings' behind the push for a NWO.

dumberthanb4 wrote:The news never publishes this because they want people to hate each other over things like this. It's more of the divide and conquer principle. Never believe what you read in the news.


Does that mean any and all news? 8-) avatar by the way

I didn't know the part about only 1 cent of every dollar actually going to the people they so self-righteously claim they are helping. Typical D.C. double talk.
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison
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Postby dumberthanb4 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:47 pm

I have worked with tribes all over the country. My mother was of the Miami ( me-ah-me) tribe of Indiana. Well Sandra, I kind of guessed you knew what I posted but most people don't so I felt it worth mentioning. I've seen way too much and things anyone not involved with a res would never believe. I've been out of the loop for a few years now because of something that happened in sioux falls and I just burried everything. The people in this country really honestly have no clue about the things that are going on. I look forward to your post.

Oh and what you said about native governments being corrupt...absolutely. How it happened is the most sad story and takes us straight back to the global elite. It's the people inbetween that suffer and die.

I should say something else too. I realize that many of the people seem to have no priorities or drive. There is much alcoholism and abuse. I am neither an alcoholic or an abuser but have been subject to them much of my life. There is a sense of self anhilation throughout the tribes. The people know that in a hundred years or less they will be extinct. The last of the full blood Miami's died a couple of decades ago. When he died, the last half blood who knew the full language quit speaking. It's a matter of time for the other tribes and they are well aware of it each on his own personal level. it's very difficult to not think about it or take any kind of pollyanna view on the subject. It's hanging over the heads of each person like the sword of damacles. Add to that all the death they see on a weekly basis and the abject poverty of most of the tribes and you largly get a group of people who want to destroy their brains so they don't have to think anymore. It got so bad for me that I unconsciously blocked it out of my memory for several years. I got a call from a brother one morning. It was someone I had known well and worked with a long time and I had no memory of him whatsoever. As he talked, things came creeping back to me...and I wish they had'nt. I do now though also remember some of the good times. there are many yet who are traditionalist who have not been corrupted and these are the people I like to remember.
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Postby sandra » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:56 pm

These are my thoughts on tradition from another thread, however it relates to what we are tlaking about here as well : "

I believe at one time tradition was a good thing, like maybe when one time people were a good thing... No really though, the reason I do not like routine nor tradition is because I do not believe many people are walking around right now with 'good' intent (or that they are even aware of such a thing as 'intent', and if you have a shyt ton of people doing the same thing over and over again day in and day out, I can't imagine their intent is going to change with the same physical actions....BUT it is not really HOW we do things, its the WAY, with what reasoning,,,,,for instance, I am half native american, the big talk in indian country right now is that we are losing our language and culture, (our traditions) and every one is in a panic and pointing fingers, yet if our own people werent soo ill willed to turn into corporate america, those same people would have the time to preserve the things they call sacred. Nothing is being lost, its being given up....and they are not fooling the people who preserve the real truth. What should really be tradition besides growing in love and compassion. on and on and on oh yeah thats a whole nother trip for me, thx for sharing ur thoughts.

Listen, the so called traditionalists that are preserving tradition and language are some of the very people that are adding to the destruction of their own nation. They hoard their teachings and use them against people, they hold them over other peoples heads, they are selfish and see them as a means to financial gain and status within the tribes. There are a couple people I have met that use their teachings in the way they are meant, well partially so.

The depths and aspects of suffering for Native American people can be summed up. If you give up hope, you have nothing. There has to be self responsibility and I speak from a point not of hipocracy on the subject, but of expectations first from myself. My belief in myself first.

The lack of hope has bled into everything. You are right, enrollments are down terribly, there are hardly any full blood natives left, and they are now wondering how they are going to keep their enrollment numbers up so they can still continue to have federal recognition through the United States. Again, we are the only people that are defined by blood quantum, which is delusional in the first place.

I have so much on this I could write a book, so I will only add a little for right now:

Just in my familys 2 tribes alone, the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe and the St. Croix Chippewa:
Years ago when the federal government started enrollment with the Indian people, it was very much a known fact you did not want to be 100% Native American, it made you look bad, it was frowned upon and meant you were of lesser nature, you would not get jobs as easy and the list goes on and on. As a result to begin with: People were lying about their blood quantum as the federal agent started the 'original rolls" "base rolls" which helped figure numbers and percentages for all other relatives and decendants. There was another factor: The federal agents were writing in old english and many full blood people that were recorded, are seen today as 7/8 blood, when it was an old english F recorded for full blood quantum. Also, the governement had given options. Give up some of your blood quantum in exchange for land alottments. --Thats a huge one. If I know Native American people that have their own land that has been passed down, I can already assume three things. 1 they were screwed. 2 they have no full bloods currently living. 3 they have no idea their real blood quantum.

This has been some of my own personal research into archives and governemnt information, as well as known facts. My grandmother was one of those people whom sold 1/4 of her blood to get land, and just last year was this blood given back to my familys enrollment, they changes our blood quantum to higher number after we supported our case with evidence that my grandmother was full blood and recorded as 7/8 , they say it was a mistake. It was not, thats how they were willing to give her the land, thats what they had done to many people.

Now Mille Lacs band government has openly claimed their enrollment records are disaster and complete mess with errors everywhere, they have since ben trying to higher a researcher to be dedicated to that department.

okay my hands are tired need a rest. I'll have lots to say though,
and can you give proof that it is only 1% the tribes are given, I'm not in agreement with that number.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
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“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
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Postby dumberthanb4 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:45 pm

Oh I'm well aware of the tricks used to reduce blood quantum. The Miami are poster children for that manouvre which is why they don't take blood quantum into consideration. 80% of the tribal roles were torched by the feds long before the days of computers in order to ensure the Miami would not be federally recognized.

I was'nt speaking of the traditionalists you speak of but I know and have butted heads with them and I don't like them any more than you do. ( it's so tempting to name names )I was speaking of a very small element within the native communities who are real humans who are balanced with the past and the present and the future. The REAL traditionalists who know that humans should not stagnate. Unfortunately, they are the minority within their own people. They do exist though and I can't thank them enough for existing. Had it not been for them, I would have died long ago.

Yes I agree that the people need to take responsibility and not wallow in despair but it's much easier said than done. There gets to be a saturation point. That point is different with every person. I met mine and my brain chemistry decided to protect me by burrying everything without even trying. My mother used alcohol to burry it...the irony is it came to the fore more often when she drank. I took the responsible, hopeful path...and by the time I was 37 I was incapble of hope with a severe panic/anxiety disorder. I was an advisor/activist for NA rights within prison systems all over the country for many years. My job was to inspire the people to aspire. We actually got a lot accomplished but it broke me in the end. Over that breakage I have no control. My own neural pathways are my enemy now.


The monetary compensation depends on the tribe. many of the larger tribes do not fall within the 1%. It depends on how high profile the tribe is, but 1% was the majority number 10 years ago. Like I said, I'm out of the loop.
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Postby sandra » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:30 pm

dumberthanb4 wrote:Oh I'm well aware of the tricks used to reduce blood quantum. The Miami are poster children for that manouvre which is why they don't take blood quantum into consideration. 80% of the tribal roles were torched by the feds long before the days of computers in order to ensure the Miami would not be federally recognized.


Yes and isn't it shaking how many people are unaware of these unjustices? They just automatically assume all Native people are taken care of. When many tribes will never be federally recognised, or even recognised by other Native American Tribes. Its pathetic to say the least. Look at all the conflict the souix community in Black hills have had, oh I love the black hills. Love it. That and deadwood gambling ;) Just think, my cousin, she is the only child in the family that is not enrolled, why? Her mother died before there was enrollment in Mille Lacs, you have to first have a parent enrolled. Distgusting under those circumstances. Talk about out of the loop. Last time the cheif of the trib was over at my home for conversation, I had almost kicked them out and backed them up to the door. For telling me that enrollment issues should not affect anyones self worth or involvement in the community. Yet they will not recognise anyone whom is not affiliated in membership in community meetings, desicions, or otherwise, they will specifically ask that you only ask questions and speak if you are a band member. The elders never wanted gaming for ndns, they said it would lead to things wrong and not part of the way of life for native people. They were right. But people assured them they would take care of the elders first...hmm thats why most tribes are putting up fricken nursing homes? cmon now!

If you ask me, I hope they eventually allow state run casinos to support all tax payers. Native Americans are misusing their means. We need a wake up call, and if the tribes are not already in bad shape from bad investments that fell through with the economy, its going to happen otherwise. Somet ribes however invested in governemnt backed investments which were not popular among the rest. Saved Mille Lacs butt. St croix on the other hand is verge on bankrupt, as are others. No money.

I was'nt speaking of the traditionalists you speak of but I know and have butted heads with them and I don't like them any more than you do. ( it's so tempting to name names )I was speaking of a very small element within the native communities who are real humans who are balanced with the past and the present and the future. The REAL traditionalists who know that humans should not stagnate. Unfortunately, they are the minority within their own people. They do exist though and I can't thank them enough for existing. Had it not been for them, I would have died long ago.


Thank you for clarifying that, you must understand why I had said those things. Most people do not refer when they are speaking ...to the REAL traditionalists. Or even know anything about them, cool you do if I may say. :D

Yes I agree that the people need to take responsibility and not wallow in despair but it's much easier said than done. There gets to be a saturation point. That point is different with every person.


Oh believe me, I know what you say. After so long things are going to even themselves out. I try my hardest to live by example, that is how I feel I can help. Take care of myself, my own mind, and accept that challenges that come along with it. Embrace and move forward.

The monetary compensation depends on the tribe. many of the larger tribes do not fall within the 1%. It depends on how high profile the tribe is, but 1% was the majority number 10 years ago. Like I said, I'm out of the loop.


Im going to do some research on this, I'll let you know.
Thanks so much for adding your thoughts on all this, sounds like you have gone through alot. :)
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby dumberthanb4 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:53 am

let me know what you find when you research it. Time flys, actually..it's been..wow 2010 uh...I fell out of everything in about 97 or 98. Forgive me, my memory in some areas is sketchy, I've got a bit of brain damage now. I'm curious because I'm wondering if the info has all been justified. I knew a couple of people on the inside. You'll be able to tell if the amounts are justified on paper but have had no impact with the actual tribe. Talk to people.

I never spoke with pseudo-traditionlists much. I avoided them as much as possible. Occasionally I had no choice but to deal with them to get things done for the brothers. Most would help if it made them look good. The real help always came from the real traditionalists so if I use the word "traditionalist" that is what I mean. I will mention some of the good people I remember though. The ones who helped the most. The real traditionalists. Grandfather Chief Danny Gasco ( Ottawa), David Roussin Newhorse ( Apache ), Daryl Joseph ( Ojibwe ), Robert J. Titus ( mixed native can't remember but one is Tsalagi ), Rita Means (Lakota), George Bluebird ( Lakota )....many more my brain won't yet recall their names.

Most people don't know anything unless it's broadcast on CNN. I remember thinking after I found out the last full blood died...that just the other day the news had reported a bird that had gone extinct in a forest out west and yet not one word about my people. The global elite don't want people to know. There is still a res out in Oklahoma that is shared with the Ottawa and the Miami in Indiana cluster around a small area called Peru and are still petitioning for recognition..well last I heard. I've been stashed away from all things american indian for awhile now. All things anything really. I'm a hermit and have barricaded myself in with my sci-fi and other geekly things. It was'nt only the work with the people that brought me down, there were other things going on as well. I had both sides of the coin to deal with. My mother being Miami and my father being of the blueblood/elite descent.

You sound as if you are on the right path and I wish you many blessings ! :)
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Postby sandra » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:25 am

"Cobell, the lead plaintiff in a lawsuit filed in June 1996. “We also face the uncomfortable but unavoidable fact that a large number of individual Indian trust beneficiaries are among the most vulnerable people in this country, existing in sheer poverty.” The Interior Department manages about 56 million acres of land. It leases the land for mining, grazing and oil and gas production. It also collects money from those leases and distributes it to more than 384,000 individual Indian accounts and about 2,700 tribal accounts. In the lawsuit, the plaintiffs said the government had breached its responsibility to manage assets belonging to American Indians and that it refused to fix a flawed accounting system that led to billions of dollars being lost without explanation"


Ah I've been keeping track of this story, things are moving along....atleast something might be concluded out of the case, its been long long standing. Trust, there is just no trust.

http://www.nativetimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2783:senators-urged-to-approve-settling-of-indian-case&catid=51&Itemid=27
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby Aquatank » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:06 am

$3 billion isn't enough of a pay out to the nations. They are owed a lot more than that plus a return of larger tracks of territory and all sovereign rights therein.

The $3 billion is a swindle, the reason I say this is because of the land theft of the Western Shoshone Territory in 2004 (they gave the tribe $128 million for it). Just one of the mountains there, Mount Tenabo, produces between $7 & $8 billion dollars a year and the territory that was grabbed is the 3rd largest gold producing region on the planet. http://www.unobserver.com/layout5.php?id=1708&blz=2

This particular land swindle had been blocked by the American public since the 1970s so lets look ata conservative number 1980-2004 the lands belong to the Western Shoshone, so using Mt. Tenabo as a base at $7 billion a year you get $168 billion dollars nined at an interest rate of at least 15% they should get $25.2 billion dollars and it should probably be higher. The total B-2 Bomber program cost $44.74 billion in 2004 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-2_Spirit ) and $85 billion a year in Iraq ( http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0112-07.htm ) $1 Trillion so far ( http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2010/03/u ... worst.html ) but our politicians don't dare spend that kind of money on domestic programs to save our economy and/or putting the Native American Nations back on their feet through any reparations or fair deals. $3 billion is a swindle and the politicians know it
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Postby sandra » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:19 pm

The land and its resources are worth billions of dollars to mining and energy companies.

· The land produces 2/3 the gold production in the U.S., making it the third largest gold producing area in the world, behind South Africa and Australia. Due to the enormous wealth of minerals, a 1999 USGS report sited the area as the number one investment opportunity for extraction companies.

· Energy companies are lining up for access to the vast geothermal resources with Senator Reid calling the area the next “Saudi Arabia” of geothermal energy production. Much of the energy production is presumed for use to subsidize existing and expanded mining operations.


http://www.unobserver.com/layout5.php?id=1708&blz=2

The above is an insert of an article you linked to Aqautank, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate the input on this subject, as I am not very well at finding some of these articles and hearings.

I knew 3 billion was not much considering the amount of land under question and the time of this settlement alone, however I did not realise just how valuable this land is to the U.S. government.

Now I have to read through some of the other information you provided. Sadly, many Native American peoples are unaware of the details in this ongoing case. This case has been horrendous.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby Aquatank » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:45 am

The Western Shoshone case in 2004 was a real steal. I heard it was up for a vote a few weeks before and contacted my father to write the congress in his state as well my father spread the word but got word fromthe congressmen that he knew nothing about the vote, so my father ended up sending apologies out for my bad information. It wasn't bad info. What had happened is the backers of the bill rescheduled the vote for two or so weeks later at just before they were originally scheduled, so that congress could sneak the bill though later, and say to the public that no such vote was happening on the original date. It's P.O.d me ever since, and of course the regular media channels carried no news of the land theft at all. Just like they aren't carrying the UN Rappoteurs report from last friday on the conditions in the reservations.

edited to post a link on the UN investigation.
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/67761687.html
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