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Government and Political Conspiracies

9-11

Throughout time, there have been countless government and political conspiracies that have kept us wondering. This forum is dedicated to that very topic. Got a conspiracy theory of your own? Post it, and try to back it up as best you can!

Postby fortwynt » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:57 pm

http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/articles/article/1518131/29110.htm

Recently, Rodriguez, declared a national hero for helping save numerous lives on the morning of 9/11, including David and Giambanco, said he heard a massive basement explosion seconds before the jetliner struck the top floors when he, along with 14 other co-workers, were huddled in a sub-level 1 office.



Besides the trio, the taped statements of Jose Sanchez, another WTC maintenance worker, recently came forward, saying he heard an underground explosion at the same time the others reported it while working in a small sub-level 4 workshop.





"At the same time David, Rodriguez and the others heard the basement explosion, Giambanco was in a completely different location on the opposite side of sub level 1 by another elevator."



In the taped interview, Giambanco told Gurisatti, the Colombian reporter:



“We heard the explosion and the smoke all of a sudden came from all over. There was an incredible force of wind that also swept everything away."

“Later they told me it was an airplane that hit the towers, but how could it just be an airplane? I know all the newspapers were saying that, but it was just too incredible to believe if you heard and experienced what I did. It had to be a bomb.”
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Postby jaydeehess » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:11 pm

Cole_Trickle wrote:The energy of the collapse should have been arrested at some point during the event, it was not,


Incorrect, see my previous posts.

and all within was shredded into small bits and pieces. Pretty amazing for a top down collapse to eliminate all: Furniture, toilets, computers, phones, chairs, desks, file cabinets.

110 storey high speed rock tumbler. There is a reason why the tallest real CD is less than even WTC 7. The higher the drop the more energy available for destruction. BTW, do not make the mistake to say that energy gets 'used up'. That would contravene the know laws of physics.

Equally amazing for 5 story sections of the outer perimeter columns weighing several tons to be found 500-600 ft away from the Towers. No buckling or bent columns, just cast out like toothpicks.



Each storey was 12 feet, 5 X 12=60. Sorry Cole you are off by a factor of 2 IIRC.
May I see your math as to the energy required and the velocities of these perimeter column trees to get 600 feet from the base of WTC 1. May I see your explanation as to how explosives would accomplish this including the video and audio evidence that must, neccessarily be present if explosives did the deed.


If they peeled like bananas one would expect to see crumpled, twisted, buckled columns as they would have Some like to claim been pulled inward by the weight of the above floors. However, all the video evidence, and photographic evidence clearly shows that the above was already ( Rubble ) before it impacted the floor below.


You seem to be conflating several aspects here. Do try to be more specific.
I did address perimeter column trees in a previous post Cole. Perhaps you'd re-read them.
30 foot sections of core columns were in that rubble giving the lie to your contention that all was tiny pieces. Core columns were twisted and buckled, perimeter columns were snapped and pushed outward.

There's a fairly new board that is kind of sticky, they are bashing new things about over there. As well as the old sh*t. I'm not a member, but I've noticed some of my finds have appeared on their site pics and the like. I've spoken via e-mail with the owner a few times in passing. I've not spent, much less had the time, to dig very deep into their material. But I do know that the site is quite unique, and all but impossible to find under the regular queries.


I don't believe there is an injunction against posting the url of other forums here. Let me guess though, its the Citizen Investigation Team tree fort you speak of?

They have exposed some of those within the "TRUTH MOVEMENT " as Fakes, namely Dr Steven Jones and his Thermite BS. He was planted from the very first and to this day refuses to speak to ANYONE who can pin him down on certain issues in regard to thermite being all but IMPOSSIBLE to pull off undetected. The same with the New kid on the Block~~Rich Gage~ CD is a tool of the official theory, they push it, want people to push it and have people to believe it simply because CD would have been impossible to rig without being found out. That's exactly why the words "Controlled Demo" are used by some in the truth movement~~~It's blatant disinfo.


fort might be interested, I'm not. It seems that anytime one conspiracy buts up against another they automatically get hissy with each other. Hardly my fight.

One should ask themselves why the original blue prints have been kept from the public and all FOIA requests have been denied.



Hmm, oddly enough , even if this were true, it seems that it was not in effect for WTC 7, the supposed smoking gun of CD. The NIST report is quite detailed on its construction. If you cared you'd also know that details of the construction of the towers is in the NIST reports concerning them as well.

.
Besides I've an original first draft drawing of one of the Towers and the ELEVATOR SYSTEM, hand drawing. It shows something entirely different than the design concept of the blue print in question.


A hnad drawing is different than the final construction. Go figure. :o

Good luck on finding stuff in regard to these Towers, ( in this country anyway) pre 9-11~~most all info has been eliminated from the public domain.


I wonder why it would have to be public domain?
Tell you what, find the original blues for the Sears tower Cole.
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Postby Cole_Trickle » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:57 am

I refuse to play your game. Have your opinion, which is exactly what it is, and I'll have mine. Can you accept that?

The I say it's partly cloudy while you argue that it's partly sunny and call me wrong stuff is ridiculous.

This is too obvious and simply ridiculous!

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Postby jaydeehess » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:32 am

Cole_Trickle wrote:I refuse to play your game. Have your opinion, which is exactly what it is, and I'll have mine. Can you accept that?

The I say it's partly cloudy while you argue that it's partly sunny and call me wrong stuff is ridiculous.


Actually as far as I am concerned you are saying that its overcast while I am saying that aside from some cloud way to the north thatits a nice blue sky.

This is too obvious and simply ridiculous!

Cole

What I find utterly bamboozling about such a reply is that you are in effect saying that despite any and all technical or scientific explanations illustrating that what was seen is entirely consistent with high speed aircraft impacts, and 10,000 gallons of fire acellerant, you choose to believe in a vast, complicated, wholly unneccessary gov't (shaodow gov't) conspiracy.

This puts you in the same religious-like fevor camp that fortwyn is in.

Yes I accept that you are simply and utterly unwilling/unable to believe otherwise than what you believe now. As I said I used to be a Baptist therefore I have come accross this reasoning before.
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Postby Cole_Trickle » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:11 pm

What I find utterly bamboozling about such a reply is that you are in effect saying that despite any and all technical or scientific explanations illustrating that what was seen is entirely consistent with high speed aircraft impacts, and 10,000 gallons of fire acellerant, you choose to believe in a vast, complicated, wholly unneccessary gov't (shaodow gov't) conspirac


:lol: :lol: :lol: Presumption will get you know where. Your collapse mechanism is way too weak for the results. I only believe what I see in the video and photographic evidence, as well as all that has been wiped from the public domain.

Those vids and pics suggest an energy source well beyond planes and fire, and the resulting investigations and repeated FOIA denials suggest a cover up. The Kooks within the truth movement are the brush that paint all those who question with the same tar.

If the Truth movement was truly interested in the truth they'd work together instead of working apart.

The only conspiracy theory I believe, it you wanna label it that way, is the one where I question the OFFICIAL ACCOUNT. I don't buy it. In my opinion it has far too many unanswered questions and was controlled by those in power at the time, not by any outside agencies, just the ones from within.

Those building mostly exploded as opposed to collapsing, most all vid and pic evidence shows exactly that, and that's why there was little in the way of office contents and people left behind in the rubble. It also explains why the rubble piles were so flat in comparison to the height and mass of those Towers.

TPB are now pushing the faulty design of the buildings as a means of a further ( muddying of the water ) if you will. That's now a possibility as to why they collapsed. :lol: :lol: Love how they keep coming up with sh*t.

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Postby fortwynt » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:22 pm

truly a gem, jay, truly a gem.

religious fervor?

I've attended quite a number of churches myself, and was involved with plenty of them for quite a while (though no more)....I have see your type as well, all too often.

"I believe it, it makes perfect sense, forget that I belong to a group that has the poorest track record of a: telling the truth and b: protecting peoples human rights, as anyone else on earth".

yes...i would call your opinions religious fervor.

granted as much technical jargon i've read from both camps is enough to ruin the mind....i have yet to see one thing that would demonstrate to me that this wasn't exactly what the united states government desperately needed (9/11 that is)....all roads point to US Government complicity....now, this doesnt mean that there needed to be too terribly many people "in the know", just alot of worker bees "just doing their patriotic duty" or "Just doing their jobs", while the few puppetmasters pulled all the strings already in place.

it really shocks me that someone of your obvious intelligence refuses to see it this way, but instead demands "proof, before i'll believe it".



proof...*bellows with laughter*....yes yes....of course.
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Postby jaydeehess » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:42 pm

fortwyn: I most certainly do not belong to a group with a poor track record of telling the truth. You believe that I work for the (a) government?


Cole: You write again that there are unanswred questions. What are they? Specifically what questions about the collapse mechanism? Specifically tell me WHY my collapse mechanism is too weak. so for I have yet to see any technical description from you at all.

I specifically asked for an explanation of how explosives would/could be used to launch perimeter column trees 500 feet. I would like to know how this launch could be accomplished with explosives without destroying the column tree.
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Postby CodeBlack » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:26 pm

pandasex wrote:lets just say for s**ts and giggles it was blown up by our government.......WHY??

"You come to me without the why, you come to me without power."

Right off the bat I can answer that. Insurance. Irregardless of what was behind 9/11, that end of Manhatten was being re-decorated and the last thing the NYC government wanted was a bunch of half wrecked buildings that now would need massive repair. NYC is all about the economics and putting it on the insurance companies $aved NYC's neck. Bldg 7 was blown, that much is clear, to me. And I remember Rudy on TV that day talking about other bldgs. that might come down or need to be pulled down. There ya go.

Now whether they needed to pull bldg. 7, and any other bldgs., down for some other reason is a matter of conspiracy theory. Ultimately if there was any home grown conspiracy on 9/11 that it had a purpose. Why?

Excuse to take out Saddam? Nope, that dog doesn't hunt. We already had enough excuse.
To get the oil in Iraq? Nope, we already had it on the world market.
To save Israel? There was no immediate threat to Israel by Saddam or Afghanistan.
To put Bush in office? He was already there.
To steal something? Maybe, but that's a long way to go for a robbery.
To put B.O. in office? Too far a stretch and B.O. didn't run on anything 9/11 related, directly.
To increase MIL spending? No, the US gov has never had a hard time managing that.

NWO/GW/GreenScam? Hmmm. Now we're talkin. Get Saddam's oil off the market. Simultaneously increase oil demand with war, driving price way up. People start conserving and demand better gas mileage cars. Get the world to buy into GW and the need to go green. Get AG jetting around the planet blaming consumption. There's some smoke there, but also some fire. You see where this leads? And it explains the massive cover ops going on now, one of which I saw with my own 2 eyes just 24 hours after t0.

Part 2: Manufacture a recession. Install new president. Move up to next level. Get the world blaming the US for the world's problems. Make countries hate the US for consuming too much. Force Americans to conserve more. Gov prints massive amounts of money to hide spending on green tech. Its a full on blaze at this point. Now all we need is another "attack".

Tell me I'm wrong.
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Postby CodeBlack » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:55 pm

fortwynt wrote:Well I'd say why ...?

Because quite frankly they just dont give a toss one way or another about you or I, so long as their power structure remains and remains in good working order, ...

in short, why would they destroy the twin towers and building seven? ... for pure shock value, so that we would go along with what they had planned for later. Nothing like 3000+ dead americans ... fire under peoples asses, or make them so fearful that they will literally HAND you all the power you've always wanted to have openly, but never have.

Wellhellhell. A ray of sunshine in the darkness. Let me answer it this way. What put the US at the top of the planet in the 20th century? And after you answer that, what is going to keep it there?

Answer to Q1: The Industrial Revolution, WW-I and II, the Cold War nuclear scare, the Information Age.

Answer to Q2: Hmm, a quandary. A mystery, wrapped in a riddle, inside an enigma. "Invention is the necessity of all mothers." So we best get to inventing something, and quick. Otherwise, Mickey Green Eyes might have to bark and holler at someone and that would upset the country club and they do love their cucumber sandwiches in autumn. Mickey's got his eye on that new 225 footer with the indoor coy pond and the helo-pad which would look so randy parked in the bay during the F-1 race. ;)
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Postby CodeBlack » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:23 pm

Cole_Trickle wrote: Good luck on finding stuff in regard to these Towers, ( in this country anyway) pre 9-11~~most all info has been eliminated from the public domain. Maybe CodeBlack will one day share his/her knowledge of exactly what it is I'm talking about in that regard. ;) Cole

Wild horses couldn't drag it out of me. I'm not that stupid. Not online. :?: :| :?:
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