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Somali pirates hijack 4 ships, take 60 hostages

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Postby CodeBlack » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:24 pm

Wow, that was fast on the FOIA John! I remember the news, crew was happy they got rescued. Kudos to BO for standing up to the pirates. Never thought I'd say that. Haven't had a chance to read the docs yet, but refresh my memory... didn't we go into Somalia some time back? Oh yeah, that was under Clinton.

I'll be honest. I don't know how you fix Somalia's problems and I don't think anyone else does either. We could hire them out to the US Navy. They seem to have some nautical skill. Anytime we need to send in the Seals or Marines, just send in the Somalies first to soften them up. "You keep what you catch." This whole pirate episode does seem comical doesn't it? Reminds me of the X-Files episode "Syzygy" with the keystone cops playing on the tv.

Sooner or later though its gonna get serious. Companies are gonna get tired of losing their ships. When Wal-Mart starts raising prices watch people scream. We may get a pirate tax like the 911 tax on air fares.
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Postby gudskepteacal » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:22 pm

I clicked on BV's link and read the doc. about the Maersk and the other ships that got pirated. The other pirates seemed irate that their buddies had been taken out by SEAL snipers. They said something to the effect that their buddies were about to give up the hostages without ransom before they were shot and now they would show no mercy to captured American mariners.

Don't they know if you mess with the bull you could get the horn.
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Postby Tairaa » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:33 pm

Well... Which side of the fence are you looking from makes a difference.

Sure, they are conducting illegal activities stealing lots of money from really rich and powerful people. But they didn't kill anyone, so by their way of thinking what they're doing doesn't warrant killing them to stop.

From our way (not mine, but out is more simple for the sake of argument) way of thinking says that since they are stealing money we should kill them.

I personally believe, that since they are partaking in piracy they have accepted the risks associated with such, but you know what they are doing with the money? Improving the quality of life in their country. Just to think about.

What we should absolutely NOT do is deteriorate the quality of life for the people in Somalia because some somali pirates are hijacking freighters. From my way of thinking killing them off is fairly reasonable, but invading their country is not. Punishing all for the mistakes of a few is, like I said, a pretty shitty policy.
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Postby gudskepteacal » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:18 pm

I can understand your point of view and if I was in their shoes; who knows...

BUT

It's not like they HAVE to do this to survive. There are plenty of other people in that country who do not resort to piracy. Just because they have not killed hostages doesn't mean they won't and the people charged with security know this as well.
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Postby Tairaa » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:54 pm

Like I said, they ought to understand the risks, killing them off isn't necessarily amoral.
But, holding their country and their countrymen responsible is absolutely amoral.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby vulcan6gun » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:58 am

Tairaa, the pirates don't seem to be any different than Somali 'warlords'. I seriously doubt they're improving the quality of life for all Somalis; odds are more in favor of the pirates improving their own quality of life at the expense of other Somalis and everyone else involved.

Boeing's Pegasus class hydrofoils were decommissioned in 1993. They carried 8 Harpoon missiles and one 76mm gun, a bit much for anti-piracy, though it'd be fun to watch a 50 foot fiberglass 'pirate boat' vaporize. :shock:

Lockheed-Martin's 'Sea Shadow' would look totally awesome and scare the sh*t out of the pirates, if it were active and armed, but it's neither. :(

There's the Mk.V, but it's not intended for ship-to-ship combat. Aluminum hulls do not qualify as armor. :|

About the best we have available--that our sailors might survive attacking from--are our frigates, which are large and relatively slow. Not that it matters, because helicopters and aircraft are far more effective than any surface vessel.

Of course, I don't care if the pirates survive or not, either, since they're a murderous lot. Arrr.
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Postby Tairaa » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:40 am

Tairaa, the pirates don't seem to be any different than Somali 'warlords'. I seriously doubt they're improving the quality of life for all Somalis; odds are more in favor of the pirates improving their own quality of life at the expense of other Somalis and everyone else involved.


You may very well be right, I've never been there of course, I don't know first hand.

I've heard that they're building infrastructure and setting up cafes, and gas stations and restaurants etc. It could be false allegations, it could be less then accurate in the event it's not false, I don't know.

And again, killing the pirates is defending your interests. Killing the pirates countrymen is not appropriate. Too me, that's as obviously as the 61 y/o dude slapping a 2 y/o girl in the face. To me, obviously that's not the right choice, not a good course of action, and the same is so with holding their country responsible.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby vulcan6gun » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:22 pm

Wanna laugh? Here's Hillary Clinton's take on the subject.

I found no links that indicate Somali pirates building anything other than their personal wealth. But there's another I think you might find interesting, from the International Commerce Commission.

In fact, I particularly like that one, quite informative and if there's any bias to the reporting, it favors the commercial carriers rather than any particular nation.

Give me one assault carrier task force with two squadrons of A-10s toting Napalm canisters and FFARs, and I'll clean up the pirate mess in about two or three months. Be warned, there will be a lot of roasted pirates.

Arr. 8-)
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Postby CodeBlack » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:59 pm

Leave it to Clinton to come up with a totally bass ackwards approach. She's lost her F-ing mind, as usual. Yeah, the way to stop thieves is to buy them off. Yeah, that'll work. And of course it won't entice other thieves to do the same. You'd think someone in the press would ask why her husband pulled out of Somalia leaving the mess that is there now. YOU'D THINK! Not with our useless news media.
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Postby gudskepteacal » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:54 pm

I think the plan that the article describes is that of the author; Uwe E. Reinhardt, not Mrs. Clinton. If you read the first paragraph carefully, he says that Clinton wants to stop the pirates by denying them modern banking services. Whatever that means. Buying the pirates off is good for a laugh though.
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