The Black Vault

Well said my friend.

Yes, they have many treasures and an opulant palace. They also are the funding behind many soup kitchens and other charitable causes.

****And what, you have no problem with the monumental disparities between pitance, a mere fraction of donations received from around the world going in the coffers of the vatican bank, thrown at the poor like bread crumbs whilst the gigantic hoarding of wealth goes on. Yes a mere soup kitchens


What about Babtists, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Hare Krishnas. They are all religious organizations and if you belong to one then you may not live as well as those on the top. My point is organizations are a manmade thing and therefor prone to mistakes. Don't 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'.

*****Look it isn't confined to the catholicism and the catholic church alone and I could cite many other religious organisations who exploit their positions of power to basically conduct business for profit and not for the needy.
All religious organisations do some good there is no doubt
There are countless good, decent, honourable people among them.
What I am getting at is that due to the false doctrines based on an all supreme being being put on a pedestal and making people subservient to it is what in the end cause people to not take responsibility for their own affairs including their thoughts, feelings and actions.
GOd will decide, GOd will take care of it, God is the final judge and the arbitar and so on the rationale goes giving a green light for people to thrust their responsibilities upon this imaginary figure and not assume it themselves.
The laws of cause and effect applies everywhere irrespective of whether people think that GOD put it there or not, it still applies with no exception therefore in this matrix people living their lives must think for themselves rather than assume that GOD will take care of them.
This then is the crux of the issue.
Once people relegate their responsibilities to something outside of themselves, all hell breaks loose.
It'll be no less an example than a neighbour prone to hoarding so much garbage piled up in his front and back yard depite his neighbour's protests that the disgusting state of his house is actually a serious hygienic problem and its dropping the realestate prices down for everybody living in the vicinity and upon hearing their complaint the bad neighbour tells them its GOD's will and GOD's will alone who will decide what is appropriate and what is not, go back to your houses and let GOD take care of it Amen


Fortunately I live in America where FREEDOM of choice allows one to belong to any religious sect of their choosing. Have to agree with you on that last part.

*****I do realise that people can believe what they want to believe and live their live according to their own free will there is no question about that but we as humanity must truly decide that if something is BAD, something has to be done about it.
For example a toddler is just about to put his hands on a stove left on by the parent who was about to make dinner in which you were invited to, they are busy absorbed in their conversation in which you are not involved in, as the impending danger for the child was about to be consumated, you just let it happen for the fear that if you physically handle the child you might be construed as being a paedophile OR you place the child's safety first, leap out of the chair and save the child from danger


God represents the epitome of righteouness.

**Oh and why might that be and on what grounds and have you seen him act righteously.

newinitiation wrote:And yet this has been the best that religion had achieved up until now, to wreak havoc on society, foster very criminal minded power hungry depots selling GODs name to profit tremendously whilst turning a blind eye to starving children in the own back yards.

Again you paint with a broad stroke all religious people. Most religious people are some of the most sincere and caring people you will find anywhere. The ones I know anyway. I have my charities as I suppose they do also so, instead of judging others, maybe we need to focus on what we can do to 'feed the starving children in our own backyards'.

No not all religious people, my focus is on the people like the pope with vested power to affect tremendous good if he be so inclined to use his power for the benefit of people and not act as the agent of the vatican interests that goes against the very principles that they preach but not follow themselves.

newinitiation wrote:But still people who believe in this nonsense have been so brainwashed by the very belief system that has become an integral part of their own existence that it becomes a threat on account of any outsider that questions the very foundation of their beliefs system which they'll fervently redouble their effort to protect.

It's funny to me how some will persistently argue that belief in the Bible is some kind of mind control when, at its core, it is still just a book. You may label it nonsense if you like; that will not change my perception and, until you prove that it is a fallacy, I will believe that BOOK of RIGHTEOUSNESS over you or any that claim it is false.[/quote]

***Well I think you have misconstrued my position and my intention and we are veering off way out into a different tangent altogether.
In the end everybody must decide what they'll believe, know, do, say, learn, think, etc according to their own free will but those of us like myself who have a legitimate grounds for pointing out the dangers of religion and any belief system that is not in line with the real truth, must do so in the spirit of genuine helpfulness even if condemned as a heretic or worse delusional.
I don't expect you to understand but hope that saner heads prevail even if I am precheaching to the wrong quoir at least it'll give some food for thought as the conversation evolves and more facts are pointed out.
I really must say LOGIC geared in truth is very important in the right discernment

It is said achieve the wisdom of knowledge so that you may wisely follow the laws of Creation/Nature.

Well I think you have misconstrued my position and my intention and we are veering off way out into a different tangent altogether

I understand all you want is people insecure enough in their religous beliefs to march right off and follow you instead. When people see right through you, you talk with a demeaning and degrading position of putting those down, instead of understanding and respect for a belief. At best it is just insulting. You do not have a tolerant bone in your body for any and all religions, but the jerk you follow is a fake and phoney in the UFO world. He is an old man hat probably had his heyday in the hippy days and carried over into the metaphysical fades.

Don't you feel a little duty to not take advantage of people like that who you steer into a spiritual ditch, while they may be at a crossroad in life? When they find out you are a phoney, along with trash can Billy, they don't trust anyone anymore. You talk nothing but gibrish with "natural laws" that do nothing but talk in a circle, Laws of vibration, this is that so that is this, and all your double talk laws, speak nothing about the soul, or devine guidance. They sound stupid and do not make sence.

You are worse than any of the religious hipocrites you talk about, becasue you are leading souls away from God, like a pied piper of garbage, having no conscience. When you are done with your mind games the people are more spiritually used up than ever. You belong in a carnaval someplace selling tickets to rides or running the ring toss game.

I understand all you want is people insecure enough in their religous beliefs to march right off and follow you instead. When people see right through you, you talk with a demeaning and degrading position of putting those down, instead of understanding and respect for a belief. At best it is just insulting. You do not have a tolerant bone in your body for any and all religions, but the jerk you follow is a fake and phoney in the UFO world. He is an old man hat probably had his heyday in the hippy days and carried over into the metaphysical fades.

*****No not at all and judging by this terse projection of your fears due in no less part to your strong religious orientation and the threat that you may feel based on 'what if what he says may somehow be true' albeit subconsciously, then this dogmatic reaction is nothing more than fear based response of that which may be a possibility.
And thus a poignant reminder to me at least that BELIEF itself is rather a very strange intoxicating phenomenon that people will do everything to protect even if untrue.
I love and respect my fellow human beings enough to warn them about religion and its resultant destructive effect the believers are so blinded not to see. This is what fanaticism does it is beyond rational and no less an indication of just how religion takes away the believers ability to critically think for themselves independent of the very belief system in a logical and coherent fashion.
The genuiness of Billy Meier's case I cannot stress enough nor is your response an honest reflection of genuine study but a crude dogmatism


Don't you feel a little duty to not take advantage of people like that who you steer into a spiritual ditch, while they may be at a crossroad in life? When they find out you are a phoney, along with trash can Billy, they don't trust anyone anymore. You talk nothing but gibrish with "natural laws" that do nothing but talk in a circle, Laws of vibration, this is that so that is this, and all your double talk laws, speak nothing about the soul, or devine guidance. They sound stupid and do not make sence.

****** If you knew what I know you wouldn't dare spout off such imbecilic words.
But then again its not my place to force such information to anyone who aren't willing and able to deal with it.
You have every right and the psychic freedom to ignore my post at any time


My duties as a human being in which I am exercising right now is one that you as a believer of religion will never understand because of the falsity to which the religious teachings are geared in that can never avail a logical resoning
There is nothing in the religious teachings that teach genuine love, freedom, harmony, peace, wisdom, truth, knowledge, logic, and about natural laws.
The preposterousness of its false doctrine become ever more so visible when love for thy fellow man is preached at the palpit only for people to scratch their heads saying 'well how, with what and to what'
It a teaching of massive mumbo jumbo
This applies to all religons of this earth.
Being a former catholic myself since childhood I am glad the veil of lies have lifted from my eyes regarding religion and that the real genuine truth of all truth will prevail in the end to stop this madness that religion has wrought for far too long.

You are worse than any of the religious hipocrites you talk about, becasue you are leading souls away from God, like a pied piper of garbage, having no conscience. When you are done with your mind games the people are more spiritually used up than ever. You belong in a carnaval someplace selling tickets to rides or running the ring toss game. [/quote]



Well thanks for the compliment not I take your criticism seriously as your flawed thinking attest to its illogicism reflecting nothing but the religious zealotry for which you have succumbed and are compelled to defend because the very false beliefs have become a part of you and your lifestyle and in the end what are you defending but yourself.
But in the end your life is your life and your life is yours to be responsible for, for the better or for the worse.

The bottom line is this.

Religious people, they always think that they are on the right path.
What makes them as useless as the rest is that:

As soon as they go out from church they start talking sh*t about their fellow neighbours and other people because they feel they are not worthy enough for them or that they are strange somehow or anything else.
That is just pathetic.

So they judge and talk down on people so they can have something to confess about every sunday.
That´s why my mother left religion totally, my grandmother and my father.

And when the US or Middle-east talks about that God is on their side and that God will be with them and all that other crap, you already have turned it into a religious issue whatever the cause of the war is all about.

And G2, of course I do not believe all catholics are perverts but you have to admit that there is soemthing wrong in that religion when you hear many priests violating young boys or that they condemn innocent little girls who gets raped and forgives the rapist?

And don´t tell me it´s not an religious issue, because it is.

Of all religious people I have known and know whether it´s family or not.
No one has been an exception when it comes to talk sh*t about people that ar enot around.
I never said anything to teach them a lesson, I observe everyone, and since they are stupidity themselves I don´t visit a single one of them because I know how pathetic,stupid and judgemental fools they are that contradicts everything religions says in the first place.

Well dark samus its a common experience among the religious
All the years I've personally spent going to church, congregating with like minded believers and going to extra sunday schools for added study there would always be vitriolic differences among them for such trifle and petty reasons.
They like to preach and go at all lengths to project a saintlier image of themselves to other people but behind closed doors they'd bash their wives silly, the wife sleeping around behind her husbands back, back chat among their own group that naturally forms and come to church to conduct business rather than for the right reasons.
Not all of them course but it must be the teaching itself.
Not too many walk the talk but rather do it for image sake.
They are prone to jump on others and fault find if it serves them good and enaged in the most hypocritical actions unbefitting of someone that we expect should know better.
It doesn't matter how long they've been to church
Some have been there for decades but have nothing to show for.
So is it any wonder then why so many people question the merit of religion where it is a given for people to think that it produces good decent people rather than immoral, amoral, selfish, money hungry, greedy, tricky, cunning, guileful, arrogant, unashamed and boisterous people.

well....religion, specifically fundamentalist christianity, has shot itself in a foot a time too many I think....not so much the belief in heaven and hell, for I find most logical people figure there must be a difference between those who do wickedness (and by wickedness i dont mean having a beer or saying "f*ck") and those who truly try and do good for others....but they have trashed their own image with the mindless and idiotic man-made legalism and "rules" that were never in the bible to begin with.

Everything is a sin...which is a lie...now it is true that everything "could" be a sin, but one sins much more against their own conscience and towards their fellow man than they do towards "God".

Christians believe the "appearance of evil" is the same as "evil"....so when one comes up with some quirky definition of something that "appears evil"....you know, long hair on men, ear-rings, dark clothing, heavy metal music, "curse words", etc....then that person can say "look! Evil!"....when such things are laughable. Christians wouldn't know Satan if he walked up and smacked them in the face....believe it.

The truth of the matter is, sin can be different between one person and the next....Smoking is not a sin....but if one sits around and every time they light up they say "i shouldnt be smoking, i should quit, this is baaad" yet they keep doing it, then they are sinning.

The bible says "to eat meat or to not eat meat is not sin" but as one imagines it to be, so it is, and if it causes a "stumblingblock" to "thine brethren" it becomes sin.

As far as I can tell, the "true" message of Christ is very simple....MUCH more simple than they have made it out to be, the complexity being the worst mistake they have made.....Christ said "Hear oh israel, the lord your God is One Lord, and you must worship him in spirit and in truth"....which i take to mean one should recognize that there is indeed a creator, and one should pay that concept the due respect.....AND "Love your neighbor as yourself"......And if one could simply follow those two things, then one would be on the right track in all things and areas of life.

Organized Religion (Christianity) has made things so overly complex and literalistic and legalistic....how many thou's and thee's and thine's, and how many times moses farted whilst going up the holy hill....how it could be abel fathered children when the only people alive were adam even cain and abel??? Who gives sh*t...none of that matters the slightest bit except to people who think that one must accept every little story of the bible literally or face the fires of hell. (A Hell, I might mention, that even they seem to know very little about so far as the biblical description is concerned).

Why is it christ can tell a parable, for instance....a story that is clearly metaphorical, not true, yet no one accuses him of falsehood, yet one must believe every single little story in the bible or else one is a sinner.....its all about the metaphor, folks.....Christian Fundamentalist are way too stuffy, and I perceive that if God is paying attention, God laughs.

And this coming from a person who spent many a'year involved heavily in the Pentacostal Church.

Looks like you got this all figured out so this is probably a waste of time, but here goes anyway...

newinitiation wrote:****And what, you have no problem with the monumental disparities between pitance, a mere fraction of donations received from around the world going in the coffers of the vatican bank, thrown at the poor like bread crumbs whilst the gigantic hoarding of wealth goes on. Yes a mere soup kitchens

A problem I have, but no amount of dwelling on and protesting about the actions of the Catholic Church will change the plight of the needy. Greed is not an exclusive religious phenomenon. Because they symbolize their faith, God's Wrath may be harsher, but I dare not judge.

newinitiation wrote:What I am getting at is that due to the false doctrines based on an all supreme being being put on a pedestal and making people subservient to it is what in the end cause people to not take responsibility for their own affairs including their thoughts, feelings and actions.

Surely you don't believe that being religious is a prerequisite for being an idiot; do you?

newinitiation wrote:GOd will decide, GOd will take care of it, God is the final judge and the arbitar and so on the rationale goes giving a green light for people to thrust their responsibilities upon this imaginary figure and not assume it themselves.

Are you trying to say that I'm responsible for changing the charity practices of the Catholic Church? Wait a minute, I'm not even Catholic.

newinitiation wrote:**Oh and why might that be and on what grounds and have you seen him act righteously.

That would be on the grounds of the Holy Bible which was prominent in the founding of this great nation which is pretty righteous by me. Could have been born in China, where religion is discouraged...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ ... c_of_China

Yep; us poor, dumb, gullible Christians can't hold a candle to that.

newinitiation wrote:I really must say LOGIC geared in truth is very important in the right discernment

You are still talking about man's logic and man's truth. What good is that in the presence of the Almighty Creator?
I know you don't believe in God, but, again, I urge you to reconsider. IMO, this is the most important decision anyone will ever make in their lives because, once we are gone from this world, it's too late to change our minds.

Geez fortwynt I could not have said it any better dude
For F**k sake dude you've pulled my thought out of my head like as if you've actually telepathically extricated it out of my head.
I actually regret having spent all those number of years following an imaginary dude I have never seen nor have any proof of his existence, not that it matters now but seriously wasn't religion suppose to do good rather than f**k up people to the point where they cannot lead a normal decent life.
I definitely know that there is a creator out there somewhere, be it the power of natural laws or whatever but com'on not the imaginary f**ker that is hell bent on condemning people to death whilst preaching love thy neighbour, its pathetic and it is sickening.
Why the f**k do people get it so wrong I don't know
People should derive the best that religion offers
To love thy neighbour genuinely rather than superficially
To forgive rather than to pretend to forgive
To allow freedom to prevail rather than just rhetoric
To work for peace rather than conflict in the name of thy GOD

To create harmony rather than division for such trifle and superficial reasons

To love genuinely and accept people for who they really are with respect rather than just on the surface and as soon as their backs are turned, labelling them dirty black c**ts or that F**ing trailer trash.
This is the unresonable face of religion and the man's misinterpretation of it fundamental teachings of love, peace, harmony, freedom, truth, wisdom, knowledge, logic and existence

Religious people, they always think that they are on the right path.
What makes them as useless as the rest is that:

As soon as they go out from church they start talking sh*t about their fellow neighbours and other people because they feel they are not worthy enough for them or that they are strange somehow or anything else.
That is just pathetic.

What are you doing but talking sh*t about religions? You are everybit as intolerant of Religion or God, as you claim EVERY HUMAN is against the gay lifestyle. Pot calling the kettle black.