The Black Vault

screamzero wrote:I got some friends that would like to kill an Arab or three

You're an Anti-Semite!

Stop being racist!

Are you threatening to murder Semites? That is illegal.

Saying or referring to a "Jew" reminds me of "New Speak" from the book 1984. There are three different concepts that one word refers to. There is the religion, the race and the political movement called Zionism. To really talk about this subject we have to separate those out and agree on the definitions.

A religious Jew is somebody who practices the Torah. There are very few of them in the US, mostly on the East Coast.

Zionism today is not what it originally was with the Balfour declaration. Today it has become synonymous with the support of Israel, regardless of the crimes committed by Israel. If you don't support Israel, which I don't, then you're "anti-Semitic" AKA anti-Jew.

Then there is this mythology about a race called Jew. Yes, there are some who call themselves Jew today who can trace their ancestry back to the Semitic region, but...the majority of those who call themselves Jew come from the Khazars, not from Semites. Their ancestors converted to the religious Judaism, some even married traveling Semites from that region, but that is the minority.

Can we agree on these three separate ideas when it comes to the word "jew"?

Nesaie wrote:Saying or referring to a "Jew" reminds me of "New Speak" from the book 1984. There are three different concepts that one word refers to. There is the religion, the race and the political movement called Zionism. To really talk about this subject we have to separate those out and agree on the definitions.

A religious Jew is somebody who practices the Torah. There are very few of them in the US, mostly on the East Coast.

Zionism today is not what it originally was with the Balfour declaration. Today it has become synonymous with the support of Israel, regardless of the crimes committed by Israel. If you don't support Israel, which I don't, then you're "anti-Semitic" AKA anti-Jew.

Then there is this mythology about a race called Jew. Yes, there are some who call themselves Jew today who can trace their ancestry back to the Semitic region, but...the majority of those who call themselves Jew come from the Khazars, not from Semites. Their ancestors converted to the religious Judaism, some even married traveling Semites from that region, but that is the minority.

Can we agree on these three separate ideas when it comes to the word "jew"?

Well, by definition according to the Orthodox Union converts, afterwords their family after them, can claim heritage. This is something which was done even mentioned in the Torah for those who came to the tribes of Israel and chose to live among them and practice their faith.

Now we fail to also mention that people descended from Abraham are not necessarily Jewish as many people in Diaspora are. Jews are referenced only by those of the Southern Kingdom of Israel, as of being in the lands given to Judah and Benjamin, not the Northern Kingdoms of the other tribes. Israelites as everyone was called were forced into Diaspora by the Assyrians, not the Babylonians. The Assyrians caused Israel to cease entirely, putting many of the their descendants into Ninevah and abroad. In fact the tribe of Reuben can be found among the lineage of Persians as this was the place many of Reuben's descendants fled to after the destruction of the Northern Kingdom. The Jews only come from three tribes, Judah, Levi and Benjamin. Anyone who can try to point to any other ties not through Judah, Benjamin or Levi cannot be called Jewish, as those three tribes are the only ones who can link themselves by record.

It is impossible to separate Culture from Religion in Jewish circles. This has been a huge debate among many of those who criticized the Jews in the past and was also a key note to finding reasons to kill off the race by Torquemada, at least in Spain. Judaism is a practice, whether by the devout or the mundane practitioner of the faith. The heritage and customs envelope among the people who are a part of the whole, a part of the family. To remove the two would be taking the spice out of a jalapeno and still trying to pass it off as one- you cannot. Its frustrating to the outsider why these claims can be relevant because it makes no Westernized rational ideals due to the looseness of anyone being able to step forward and claim heritage. The biggest question would be is, after seeing the history of those who have lived their lives for the last two thousand years, why would you want to be called a Jew in the first place? The answer is simple: Jewishness is their life, their culture and their heritage, whether a recent convert of only two hundred years or two thousand years, a Jew is a Jew. If you take that away which you just did ids to kill the life blood of anyone who is a deep practitioner of the faith or the minion sipping a latte at crappy Starbucks listening to the wisdom of Barbara Streisand banter on about how evil anyone who disagrees with her is on the minion's i-pod.

Zionists, from my experience are mostly Evangelicals in the United States who hold to a bastardized interpretation of a scripture found in Psalm 105:8-11 "He remembers His covenant forever, The word He commanded to a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Abraham, And the oath He swore to Isaac, And confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, To Israel for an everlasting covenant, Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan, as your allotted inheritance.”"- And also Genesis 2:2, 3 "And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed."

Due to these Scriptures Evangelicals have interpreted this to mean that the US has to be Israel's buddies and preserving the Jewish race, even though what they fail to notice is that even the Arabs according to the very text is also descended from Abraham and is also included as that Great nation. Let us also point out that what the Scripture states as a Covenant is that "You shall be my people and I shall be your God". Those living there, though not Evangelicals nor Jewish but descendants of Abraham are practicing their faith, whether Christian or Muslim, are in essence practicing the covenant of being "His People" and "He is their God". This is my interpretation of what is a Zionist.

Jewish Zionists in Israel? I see them more as nationalists than Zionists and defending their homes from rocket fire, usually. If your home you grew up in was suddenly hit by a rocket from a group of people who wanted you dead only because you are guilty by association and trying to live your life where you were raised and limited to this community, I see that as more or less a given that you would retaliate. Now its foundation was more like what America did with the Indians only the Indians had guns and friends this time around. But I doubt Palestine is not at fault for being clowns as well. Both are at fault.

Jewish Zionists Bankers in the United States? Um, no. That is where the conspiracy is always drawn overboard. The nation of Israel has been backed by the West oddly by the people whom Judaism wanted to rid a long, long time ago: Oddball Chandelier hanging Pentecostal Evangelicals who have no idea how to interpret scripture in any fashion except with an etch-a-sketch and a ouija board. These are your rich Israeli Supporters,- overzealous- rapture-ready Evangelicals wanting to see Armageddon in their lifetime so they can war and kill ragheads and be a good little Christian soldier.

The race of Jews, well, I should have already explained that. A few can outright claim direct heritage. Again, conversion also means heritage, as one cannot separate the faith from the culture. I know you want to, and probably no matter what always deny that fact and claim that you can, but to the Jew its redundant and impossible argument.

Your thoughts on my response Nesaie?

Very clear response, and I learned something. Thank you Illuminati.

I hope you understand why the word "jew", with all the complexity that you pointed out, reminds me of "new speak".

As far as zionism, again what I categorize as political, well...are we talking modern day zionism or the original zionism from the 19th century? I may have been for the original zionism, but I'm anti-zionist today. But, that is for another forum/discussion.

You did say many things, which I may bring up again, time permitting, but it was a very thoughtful post. Thank you again. Hopefully we can continue this dialogue publicly.

(Don't tell anyone, and if you do I'm drunk, but you may know more than me about this but I"m "all ears")

Its all good.
I do hope to continue this dialogue as well as many other in regards to sharing information with each other.

I was rereading this tonight and something you said kinda got me.

t is impossible to separate Culture from Religion in Jewish circles.

What about in Christian European culture...especially when it is just as racially/culturally intermixed? What about when this culture has moved to other continents? Are "Jews" (even though that is a very inaccurate word) the only ones to make this claim? What about European Atheists who practice Christmas, Easter and Halloween for their children? What about Christians, like the Jehovah's Witnesses who don't practice those holidays, but are Christian? What do these groups call themselves? A culture? A religion?

Why is it different for groups of people who's DNA goes back to Mongolia? Not all, but most "American Jews" aren't Semites and are Atheists who don't practice the Torah. Why the difference? Why can't I call myself part of the Christian culture (I don't practice Christianity, but was raised with the culture)?

I'm just trying to unravel the words here. I want to understand the real names and definitions. And, I wanted to raise this back up so I'd see it again as time permits.

Galactaspermia X-Men.
Interlocus Contest Evolution (ICE).

Whisper: psst, the password is "neocon". Also see http://www.newamerica.net/

I know a few little mes that would love to exterminate most people, couldn´t care less what they represent

They had their worship, their gaudy processions, their indulgent creed, their easy observances, their sensual festivities, their childish extravagances, such as might suitably be the religion of beings who were to live for seventy or eighty years, and then die once for all, never to live again. "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow...we die."

Bite me Nestlies. Enjoy your creed above. Anti-Christian whack job. You barely know what the word Semite is but that it's a convenient word for you to fit bigoted accusations with. ...ever call me a bigot you puNk revisionist.

For a toady PLO sympathizer that rails, bitches and moans about the Jewish "problem" side by side w/ mealwerm the maggot-ificent, you sure ain't go a lot of room pointin' your crooked little anti-Semite fanger around. ...clueless glass manikin.