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World condemns North Korea's nuclear test

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Postby mael » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:33 am

greeney2 wrote:Seems like North Korean already thinks you in Japan have already irritated them, from everything NK has said, and firing misssles over Japan. What did you do to get them so riled up?


I must've have had the stereo cranked-up too high.

(Ha ha)

What has Japan done? What has "America's largest aircraft carrier" done to annoy NK? ie- what has the US done to irritate those hungry- but highly dangerous NKs?
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Postby Wing-Zero » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:12 am

mael wrote:
greeney2 wrote:Seems like North Korean already thinks you in Japan have already irritated them, from everything NK has said, and firing misssles over Japan. What did you do to get them so riled up?


I must've have had the stereo cranked-up too high.

(Ha ha)

What has Japan done? What has "America's largest aircraft carrier" done to annoy NK? ie- what has the US done to irritate those hungry- but highly dangerous NKs?


You beat them some 600 hundred years ago in some war, and they can't let it go.

Sounds like another country somewhere out there...
War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life
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Postby mael » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:41 am

It's like the French hating the English over being repeatedly beaten in battles I suppose.

All along the Southeren coast of England were little fishing villages which were periodically attacked by French sailors, and every once in a while the English gave their navy a wopping. But it's got nothing to do with me personally.

Japanese travelling in Asia often get the cold-shoulder and are the brunt of verbal (and probably) physical attacks because of what their media tells them the Japs are supposed to have done.

I recall reading somewhere about how one band of invading Japanese cut thousands of noses off Koreans. It sounds a pretty gross thing to do, and the Koreans remember this event through their media keeping it aired. Korea has often been attacked and occupied by Japan in recorded history and now Japan is relatively subdued in its warring the former victims of the superior Japanese military machine are keen to try to balance the scales.

The Japanese also did some somewhat unfriendly things during the last so-called 'World-War,' like whoring-out their women and basically enslaving the men. But then again there are a lot of exaggerations as well.

After the hostilities of the WW were ended the Japanese became a persecuted class in their own countries as the Allies empowered the Koreans and the Chinese over them. Discrimination against Japanese by foreigners is a historical event which the Japanese have largely put behind them (in my opinion).

But then those Koreans with an axe to grind wouldn't be able to do all their posturing if it wasn't for the solid education which the Japanese forced on them while they occupied their country.

NK honestly doesn't bother me and I believe they are basically not interested in world-conquest or anything like that. They just want the Yanks out and to be left alone. The NK's believe SK is just a puppet state of the US, and perhaps they are right? How many Koreans living in the South are filled with dire warnings about the North c/o their 'Westernised' media and ZOG-written version of history? And how many NK's are filled with hostility towards the S because of their own re-interpreted account of what went on?

* If I go on like this I'm going to become like Dark S and start hating all humans! :P Isn't it all so stoopid! :roll:
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Postby Aquatank » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:47 am

Tairaa
I don't doubt nuclear power will end up in space, its already there. However, our people leaving the solar system is going to be a few centuries. The factors include building very large agroships and self sustained lifesupport systems as well as a crew that can live isolated in space with each other for 16+ years, thats the first hurdle. The second hurdle is finding the materials and technology needed to make a photonic rocket, and lastly is the power source for the entire ship. At the moment that would be nuclear, hopefully it can become Cold Fusion, and if some heaven favored event occurs and we can manufacture or obtain the proper exotic matter maybe zero-point energy. The most likely spacebased colonies will be on Luna and Mars with a good chance for Titan and if some difficult technological hurdles can be leaped through maybe Venus.

Greeney2
I don't doubt Iran has built an A-bomb. I don't know how they are hiding it from inspectors, though. But the fix is the same, we get them to abandon nuclear energy, and dismantle their reactors in exchange for clean energy that meeets their needs then by process of elimination we have taken away the infrastructure needed to build more bombs, thusly we eliminate most of the threat. Any posturing they do by detonation such as North Korea has done, would then reduce their availiable warheads accordingly. But personally I think bio-chem weapons are the real threat in that unlike nuclear weapons which are a political weapon, bio-chem weapons are a tactical and strategic weapon that allows a nation to occupy & use the captured territory very quickly seemingly almost immediately in some instances (days to a few weeks). That bio-chem threat isn't going to go away on the international scale unless the world starts learning to disarm, and its doubtful it will ever go away on the terrorist scale, all we can hope for their is that enough peace is made to reduce the root causes for terrorism down enough that proprtionally the terrorism goes down.
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Postby Tairaa » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:46 am

Aqua-

It will be at least a few centuries I think before we make manned missions outside of the solar system. Simply because: With our current propulsion systems it would take gargantuan amounts of time to get anywhere. It would take more then 10 years to get to neptune I'd bet, in a manned craft anyway. Satellites have the advantage of not having to make sure human life is sustainable constantly throughout the journey.

I find that I agree with you, eventually we'll make ships that are huge, that are purely space based, that never enter atmosphere that are self sufficient in most if not all aspects of their functioning, and several support vessels likely also just in case certain needs can no longer be met by the craft, they can repair damaged systems, or alter systems who's variables have unexpectedly been changed by environment and need some fixing.

So in order to do this we either need to have orbital "dry-docks" so to speak or bring up each peice and assemble it in space, the latter of which is far more unnefficient, but I bet we'll be doing it before we get the capability to construct ships in orbital facilities. Taking materials from the moon, since it's got less gravity to escape from. I bet we'll have a mining mission set up between Mars and Jupiter for that very purpose also.

The way I see it, there are a few unmistakable objectives we have to overcome before space will really begin to be conquered.

A)
We need for construction to occur in space not atmospherically and then moved to space
B)
We need all construction materials and fuel etc to be produced in space, leaving very little if anything that needs to be brought from a planet to space
C)
We need a far more powerful, efficient, and fast propulsion drive, I doubt our current understanding of nuclear will grant us this.
and D)
We need to either find a way to travel super-luminally, or to either slow or stop the aging of crew members during long trips. OR alternatively we could just have generations pilot ships. So people are born on the ship, people die on the ship, people are born on the ship, people die on the ship until they reach their destination.

The latter of which I don't think is a good idea, more chance of a less then devote-to-the-mission crew a couple of generations down.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
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Postby Aquatank » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:06 am

Tairaa
Yep totally off topic here (really belong down in science section). We aren't going to reach FTL anytime soom add mellenia to finding that because first we'd need to find gravitons and how to manipulate them for that to be accomplished. I've been on the photon rocket stance since 1976, and most recently I found Stephen Hawking is the supporter of it as our main possible interstellar drive and mentions velocities of 50% Light Speed (MACH 440495.55). That's why my 16+ journey qoute 8 years to Proxima Centauri 8 years back plus acceleration and decelration time.

But think about this very carefully in relation to the North Korean problem, and large ship say twice as big as an aircraft carrier that falls out of orbit purposefully or accidentally onto the planet is is going to be worse than 50 megaton bomb. This part of the reason the USA has been looking into using kinetic energy bombing from space, tactical to strategic nuclear weapon style energy tranfer with no radioactive fall out and deep penetration possibilities against hardened bunkers. The problem then becomes the possibility of a rogue nation developing that kind of weapon system and sneaking it into orbit as satellite, first up on the list for that kind of enemy would be in Iran's satellite capability. Add to that anykind of extra thrust to velocity and the energy transfer becomes even greater than the MACH 20+ orbital speeds would give in energy transfer. No Starwars system is going to be able to stop as sufficiently sized rock. So we must find peace on this world quickly before things get out of hand.
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