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Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby screamzero » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:21 pm

Questioner101 wrote:Mere hic-ups in the blip of time. Kabbalahists....all. (Using Arabian math no less.)

...have another puff...or pill...or drink enhanced gasm. The sorcery will do you good. 1+1+1=3
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Postby qmark » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:13 pm


Give me the verses that prove your point, just the verses please. My views differ from the standard pre-trib position as well. However, I believe you are expousing dual covenant theology which, in my opinion, is pure boloney. I want to see how you divide the verses.
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Postby Saber » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:13 pm


There are people who like to exploit Christians. These types like to create marked differences than use them to their advantage. The best example in modern times is Hitler once again. He used the fear of the returning favor to God's first love, Israel, to motivate people to destroy all Jews, thus keeping God's favor to themselves. Most Christians don't realize that there are two distinct brides. The first being the bride of God the father, His chosen people, Israel. Do to a total disreguard for their covenant relationship with God, the Father of Christ Jesus, God has cast them out and that relationship is as such to this day. Broken. God has promised His chosen people, His first love, that He will restore His relationship with His chosen people once again.

Christ Jesus just happened to show up looking for His bride. We all know it as the church. This relationship will never be broken as the Father's relationship now stands to this day. Don't miss the fact that there are two brides. The bride of the Father, Israel, yet broken, and the bride of the Son, the church, which will never be cast out, still standing firm.

The Father and Son do not share the same bride. They each have their own covenant relationship. One standing firm and the other broken. As not being a pruebread Jew, ones relationship to God is through Christ Jesus, being a part of His church and thus bride. As a purebread Jew at this time, Christ Jesus is the only way to have a covenant relationship with God. Though, God the Father will restore and take His original bride, the purebread Jew back to Himself. This will be accomplished by the new covenant that is yet to come. This new covenant is for the purebread Jewish bride of God the Father and not for the world and nations of the world at large. This is not for all in Christ Jesus. Only those purebread Jews wishing to return to a new and more fuller relationship with God the Father may do so. As a gentile beliver in God the Father through Christ Jesus, I would and will remain just where I am now. As a member of Christ Jesus's church, serving God wherever I am in this present world. In the future, all pruebread Jews are most welcomed to return to Israel proper and their first love, Father God and a new and better covenant. The new covenant will be better in that the power of God's Holy Spirit will be given to one and all of His restored bride, to be better able to keep all covenant promises, just like the present bride of Christ Jesus now and forever has as well.

Once again the bride of Christ Jesus will never be cast out thus never needing a new covenant relationship. The bride of God the Father has been cast out, thus needs this new and better covenant to re-establish their former relationship.

Knowing who you belong to and are to serve ends all this strife. Though you can't have one without the other, that is to say as God plainly put it, no one comes to me, except by my Son. For it is the shed blood of Christ Jesus that will also make it possible for Israel, God the Father's first love an bride, to be restored to Himself. For it was Israel's sin that broke the covenant relationship with their husband, God the Father. That is why every knee will bow and every tongue must confess the Father's Son, Christ Jesus, is the only way to serve God and Father of us all.

Misunderstanding these to brides and their covenant relationships is still being exploited to this day. There is no need to fear and hate the Jews of Israel, though many preach otherwise.

Now I already know what your next question will be. Just who lives and reigns over this planet?

If you more fully study this covenant relationship God the Father has with His chosen people, Israel, you will most clearly see that they are to serve God the Father within the confines of Israel proper. God's chosen people are to be and live seperate from the rest of the world at large, that is beyond Israel proper. This is where the bride of Christ Jesus comes in. Ruling and reigning over the rest of the nations of the world, in Christ Jesus, forever.

God the Father has His select, called and chosen people of Israel proper serving Him and the select, called and chosen people of the rest of the world, Christ Jesus. Thus the covenant promises of both brides are full and complete.
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Postby qmark » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:52 pm

Hmmm. That's what I thought. Well, my brother, if indeed you are my brother through Jesus Christ, these are secondary issues (I think) as is the rapture. One thing we can agree on, interesting days are just ahead as I too believe the church age is just about over.
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Postby Saber » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:40 pm


It is just that simple, as there is no better covenant with Christ Jesus than we all now, in Chrit Jesus, have. Any new covenant is all about God the Father and His broken covenant with those that are His.

Christians have and always will have the best of God's favor, salvation by grace alone in Christ Jesus. Now and forever more. Any one preaching a new covenant for Christians and Jews alike just doesn't know what they are talking about.

Now taking advantage of all one has of God's favor in Christ Jesus is another story. Some and I should say most just take forgiveness of sin. Others desire all that God has in Christ Jesus. These are the ones that will standout in these last days. For they will have been striving for the fullness of Christ. Thus receiving it in these times of testing and trails. Simply they will be just like the early disciples of Christ Jesus. That is having the full power of God's Holy Spirit to lead them and all who will follow their lead though these days of testing and trails.

Now those that choose to follow God in Christ Jesus to the fullest, will lead the way though this present tribulation. Of those that make such a choice, just where will they stand at the end of all this. That is durning the millennial reign of Christ. Who do you think Christ will choose to lead, head and rule the nations of this earth. Those that settled for grace alone, or those that took the road to full discipleship. Now is the hour to decide just where you will stand in Christ Jesus. As a leader or follower of someone elses lead. Forever.

The choices we make today, will last forever. Please take the time to make the best choice.
Last edited by Saber on Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Saber » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:25 pm

I am going to try and wrap this all up. Several years ago, lets say post 911, I began to look around to see, if this is the beginning of the tribulation, just who's lead am I to follow? Seeing and knowing all others as myself, just taking life day by day, there was thus than no real lead to follow. So I made a choice not just for myself but for all the others I know and care about as well. If I personally didn't make a more fuller commitment to follow Christ Jesus alone, just who else would? From than on I could live and sleep more comfortable knowing there would be a lead to follow. As I would follow Christ, all those that I care for and about need only to follow my lead. I still see no other yet today though it doesn't bother me as it did before.

Now in my quest to follow Christ's lead, I'd like to know as much as possible. When God's words seem most difficult to understand, how am I to follow most confindently. Thus my seeking out as much as possible in as simple of terms as possible to better know and understand where am I and all others who follow my lead are to go. Being led is much easier when one knows just where you are going. I may not know just how to get there, but I will know when I do arrive and having all needs met as well is a real boost to stay this coarse.

Following Christ's lead does take faith. Though faith made easy while there is still the light of day to seek, know and find the best way. Make the best choice for all those you love and care about as well. For these are not just present day choices, but eternal choices as well.

Christians do not like being seen as God's second choice. Now for the life of me I just can't see why. Though we have been chosen last to serve God in Christ Jesus, look at just what we all have the ability to attain to, the full likeness of Christ Jesus. God's only begotten son and most loved. Please show me in God's covenant with His chosen Jewish people where they get any better deal than that.
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