The Black Vault

Tairaa
The paint vs black is simple the color black is the natural color of the chemical compsite that roofing is made of. Jaack is right the bit about painting roofs white is a bit riduculous. The basic solution is just to make a government regulation that all roofing materials meet a certain albedo/reflectivity ranges. We already have light shingles and many flat roof do have light colored stones on top. So the energy sec is a bit off. The problem is people generally have roofing that lasts more than 50 years so replacement times even with albedo regulations would take a long time to put into place, especially for people who see global warming coming. However as to costs of painting, its cheap, its highly availiable. its quick, and could see immediate results, thusly its not that much more of an expense. But I don't see it happening in large numbers, because people will see it as silly, like driving 55mph to increase car mileage.

As for Jaack's complaints about Hybrids he's reffering to largely carbon footprints and other costs of the hybrids especially the Prius. Which If I remember the study also estimated that over a 10 year period only saved the owner $5 in all car related expense over the regular Hummer. The physical reason is simple because of the batteries, electric motors and such the hybrids have more materials than a regular car and thus require more materials leading to larger carbon footprints for manufacture.

I don't recommend hybrids. Partly because its $20000+ expense for a new car but you can get really good gas mileage out of a used 1980s Chevy-Geo Metro/Pontiac Firefly/Suzuki Cultus Generation II/Suzuki Swift/Subaru Justy/Holden Barina/Pak Suzuki/Maruuti Suzki Esteem under the 2007 mileage revision that's 38c-45h back when it came out that the mileage was more 48c-55h The Prius gets a combined mileage of about 45-55mpg under todays rules. Furthermore when the Metro came out they generally sold for under $7000 new and I remember seeing them for $5000 when most cars sold for $10000 to $20000. My recomendation if you are looking for a good mileage car is buy a 2 door manual transmission metro/lsi the current market prices is under $1500 for a 1989. That will give you time to wait on full production of better pure electric family cars (which will have lower carbon foot prints than hybrids) which will cost around $10000 up. These given todays bright out look on energy storage systems may take as little as 1 year or up to 7 years to hit full production IMHO.

Late Note: If you live outside the USA it may be possible to get your hands on a diesel Volkswagon Lupo which can get 60-120mpg or more recently the clean diesel VW Polo which gets 70mpg. You can decide whether or not to buy your fuel from Burger King etc for yourself.

Tairaa wrote:

Think of all the pollutants made to mfg all that white paint.

As opposed to black paint?

And hybrids pollute more?
How?

What makes a hybrid is the fact that it converts resistance on the axles (when you brake) into electricity with which to maintain speed onces you've started again, no? So how do they pollute more?

Jaack is 100% correct with his post. I don't believe in expert anything simply because most experts are fakes, but when it comes to vehicles I'm as expert as ANYONE ANYWHERE and will challenge ANYONE about any of them.

Hybrids are and always will be a flaming JOKE and a CON job run on the most Gullible. Period. The list of things they are not will always trump those that they are SUPPOSED TO BE.

Amazing what is playing out right now in the Auto Biz, it's borderline CRIMINAl AND MIGHT VERY POSSIBLY, It's very likely to scuttle Obama's aspirations of his vision when it comes to the business. He's either ignorant of the business, misguided by those close to him, or he's attempting to control all of it and if so that will proof to be fatal in the long run.

I could go into the how's and why's but it would take several boring pages and I'm pretty sure no one would listen or even care. Here's all I'll say~~

Every time I see a woman driving a 4x4 Suburban or Expedition I simply want to PUKE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE YACKING AWAY ON THEIR CELL.

What's the reason for that, Totally unnecessary vehicle and most women can't drive for sh*t so it's very dangerous not to mention 10 mpg~~it goes without saying that it's ridiculous and their usual excuse is safety which is just a lie.

The real excuse is~~rich and pure stupidity!

Cole

I wouldn't say 100% correct, maybe 80%. The regenerative braking is only part of how the electricity comes to the batteries, the rest comes actual constant speed generation and plugging in in some cases. What's cute is the Hummer Hybrid will out do the current models by getting 100mpg. Thusly it will be lose its carbon footprint advantage.

There are three solutions out there.

1 Better mileage ICE vehicles with national speed limits under 55mph (I consider this a mediocre solution at best)

2 Hybrid Compressed air vehicles ( a better solution but still mediocre luckilly it's totally different technology use than hybrid electric) Note: Pure Compressed air would only be good for in city taxis anything over 35mpgh reduces the range to about 60 miles the hybrid gets about 800 mile range at highway speeds http://gas2.org/2008/07/15/an-air-car-y ... ir-hybrid/.

3 Pure Electric Vehicles. (best solution)

Tairaa wrote:

Think of all the pollutants made to mfg all that white paint.

As opposed to black paint?

And hybrids pollute more?
How?

What makes a hybrid is the fact that it converts resistance on the axles (when you brake) into electricity with which to maintain speed onces you've started again, no? So how do they pollute more?

I know you like to argue with me for arguments sake.

reread aquas post he specifies white paint.

Hybrids cost more and pollute more to mfg the batteries and the electric motor. They cost far more than they are sold for due to govt subsidies.

Jaack wrote:

Tairaa wrote:

Think of all the pollutants made to mfg all that white paint.

As opposed to black paint?

And hybrids pollute more?
How?

What makes a hybrid is the fact that it converts resistance on the axles (when you brake) into electricity with which to maintain speed onces you've started again, no? So how do they pollute more?

I know you like to argue with me for arguments sake.

reread aquas post he specifies white paint.

Hybrids cost more and pollute more to mfg the batteries and the electric motor. They cost far more than they are sold for due to govt subsidies.

Pardon me Jaack? I like to argue for argument sake?

Was I out of line when I asked those simple questions? I think perhaps you're imaging that I say everything in an argumentative tone perhaps, because those where actually non-sarcastic, asked genuinely for the purpose of getting an answer, questions.

Thanks for them [answers] btw.

Global warming was a ruse set up by the Republicans and Democrats to exhort money from the public for the new freon.

R-134A is being used to replace R-12 which causes the ozone hole, R-12 isn't exactly a greenhouse gas. Furthermore R-12 is still legally recycled back into circulation and illegally produced in some countries. Destroying R-12 is very difficult and only about five machines on the globe can do this and they are very small so emptying a 20K tank can take quite awhile perhaps days depeneding on pump speeds. Theres lots of R-12 still out there in circulation and storage.

And when it comes to water based technologies it disturbs the ecosystem around it.
Hmmm...I hope someone fixes these problems.

There is some truth to that, but in California we have our Dam systems built all round the state, and it has had no effect on National Parks like Sequoia and Kings Canyon in the Serria Nevadas. There ecosystem is probably one of the most unique and delicate you could imagine. There are definate issues on the east side of the serrias where it has had a affect on water deverted to Los Angeles. The levels of Mono and Crowley Lakes, and the waters below Bishop to Lone Pine were once totolly different. Each years snowpack is studied and deciding the water useage is a complex situation in California.

While you are 100% right about the ecosystems, they can work around it but we still have impacted some places adversly. We learn more everyday. I grew up in Buffalo, and right at the base of Niagara Falls has always been a powerplant. Since I left Buffalo, a system was built to regulate and divert a big percentage of the falls, which only flows at around 50% now. They have tapped off the Niagara river to run big power plants, probably as important to the east coast as Hoover Dam is out west. In ways that is bad, but it also has slowed down the natuaral erosion of the falls. Flowing rivers can produce clean energy, so we need to use that.