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Catholic Church shamed by Irish abuse report

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Postby Nesaie » Sat May 30, 2009 1:02 pm

I've always believed that morality is born with us. We don't need a book to tell us how to live without harming others. And really, the Torah tells people to harm others.

Ever notice that the people who pull butterfly wings off are the same who become serial killers? Do you think some words in a book would have stopped them?

And I'm a bad guy because I point out the fact that the pedophilia was known and allowed in both Ireland and the Vatican. Right. :roll: There is a reason that the church only grows because people have babies, not through conversion...or forced conversion like they used to do.
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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Postby Lashmar » Sun May 31, 2009 3:43 am

Nesaie wrote:I've always believed that morality is born with us.


That’s the word I’m looking for when I say `human law`. I couldn’t think of it. :oops:

Thanks for that though. :D :D :D
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Postby Wing-Zero » Sun May 31, 2009 3:27 pm

Nesaie wrote:I've always believed that morality is born with us.


Oh really?

Some people, right at the time of their birth, are going to be good people?
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Postby greeney2 » Sun May 31, 2009 11:26 pm

So, you support hiding and ignoring the child molesters that the Church hid? Because Catholics didn't want to acknowledge it, and the church knew and hid it, lives were ruined.


And if you suported Bush you are a want people tortured and civilians killed in Iraq! Give me a break Nasaie, you are just one-sided in everything you ever say against Catholics, and I'm not the only one who has said this to you.

For every legitimate case of pedifilia from some Catholic Priest, a floodgate opened to join the civil lawsuits, that were purly designed to blackmail the church into settlements. Are you saying that has never happened, and every single case that was settled, was a real honest to goodness Pedifile act? I don;t question it has not happened, I question how much was real and how much was the bandwaggon of paydays, bringing a case to a deepockets defendant. Jurys will give huge awards against insurance companies, Churches, or police departments. The crime itself is nearly a slam dunk, because it involves the word of an adults experiecne as a child, against a priest who could not produce a schread of proof to refute the accuser. Knowing the inflammatory nature of cases like this to juries, they only need 9 to 3 to win cases. Jury insturctions for damages will be told by the judge, that awards should consider the life expectacy of the adult, and fact this has been affecting them since early life, so the lifetime awards are staggering. Consequently, the church would settle even cases they know are totally boloney, just becasue of the size these awards become. They are civil suits for damages for a lifetime, and they are next to impossible to win, so they settle. these lawyers that do these cases know this, and they know exactly how to manuver the negotiations. 90% of all civil suits end up in settlements by design, and this kind is a high dollar payday.

So lets be fair Nasaie. How many pedifile lawsuits against the Catholic Church do you think are legitmate true cases, and how many that follow are as legitimate as fender bender whiplash claims?

I served on a jury for a dental malpactice suit, where a lingual nerve was cut by mistake. I found out later the firm doing the case specialized in only these kind of cases, and my oral surgeon knew exactly who they, were and who the experts they used were. It was a lawsuit mill, and they know exactly how to led a jury into there spiderwed in a carefully presented case. This one went to trial, but most end up in out of court settlements. In the end we awarded the plantiff a huge award becasue it was told to us we had to consider the man still have 40 + years to live. This was of a tooth, he was awarded 900,000 for pain, suffering and life long loss of taste. Imagine why the Catholic Church would settle when they could be awarded 10 million or even 30 million, each and every time.

For every real injury claim in auto accidents, there are probably 100 phoney whiplash or unseen pain claims that can not be disproven. The clue is lack of real physical injury, but still having pain, or like the pedifile cases, the mental damage that can;t easily be disproven. In short, better settle them out of court, which the Church is forced to do.
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Postby Nesaie » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:14 pm

Wing-Zero wrote:
Nesaie wrote:I've always believed that morality is born with us.


Oh really?

Some people, right at the time of their birth, are going to be good people?


Define "good".

Life is subjective.
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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Postby Nesaie » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:24 pm

greeney2 wrote:
So, you support hiding and ignoring the child molesters that the Church hid? Because Catholics didn't want to acknowledge it, and the church knew and hid it, lives were ruined.


And if you suported Bush you are a want people tortured and civilians killed in Iraq! Give me a break Nasaie, you are just one-sided in everything you ever say against Catholics, and I'm not the only one who has said this to you.


You supported Bush and water-boarding. I didn't. (As soon as John gets a chance to archive the old site, we can bring up those old conversations.)

greeney2 wrote:For every legitimate case of pedifilia from some Catholic Priest, a floodgate opened to join the civil lawsuits, that were purly designed to blackmail the church into settlements. Are you saying that has never happened, and every single case that was settled, was a real honest to goodness Pedifile act? I don;t question it has not happened, I question how much was real and how much was the bandwaggon of paydays, bringing a case to a deepockets defendant. Jurys will give huge awards against insurance companies, Churches, or police departments. The crime itself is nearly a slam dunk, because it involves the word of an adults experiecne as a child, against a priest who could not produce a schread of proof to refute the accuser. Knowing the inflammatory nature of cases like this to juries, they only need 9 to 3 to win cases. Jury insturctions for damages will be told by the judge, that awards should consider the life expectacy of the adult, and fact this has been affecting them since early life, so the lifetime awards are staggering. Consequently, the church would settle even cases they know are totally boloney, just becasue of the size these awards become. They are civil suits for damages for a lifetime, and they are next to impossible to win, so they settle. these lawyers that do these cases know this, and they know exactly how to manuver the negotiations. 90% of all civil suits end up in settlements by design, and this kind is a high dollar payday.

So lets be fair Nasaie. How many pedifile lawsuits against the Catholic Church do you think are legitmate true cases, and how many that follow are as legitimate as fender bender whiplash claims?

I served on a jury for a dental malpactice suit, where a lingual nerve was cut by mistake. I found out later the firm doing the case specialized in only these kind of cases, and my oral surgeon knew exactly who they, were and who the experts they used were. It was a lawsuit mill, and they know exactly how to led a jury into there spiderwed in a carefully presented case. This one went to trial, but most end up in out of court settlements. In the end we awarded the plantiff a huge award becasue it was told to us we had to consider the man still have 40 + years to live. This was of a tooth, he was awarded 900,000 for pain, suffering and life long loss of taste. Imagine why the Catholic Church would settle when they could be awarded 10 million or even 30 million, each and every time.

For every real injury claim in auto accidents, there are probably 100 phoney whiplash or unseen pain claims that can not be disproven. The clue is lack of real physical injury, but still having pain, or like the pedifile cases, the mental damage that can;t easily be disproven. In short, better settle them out of court, which the Church is forced to do.


I too was on a jury and saw some of the problems with the "judicial" system. But, I'm sure you're giving the Priests a huge break, because of your perspective.
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:34 pm

You supported Bush and water-boarding. I didn't. (As soon as John gets a chance to archive the old site, we can bring up those old conversations.)


That is a lie!
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Postby Wing-Zero » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:28 am

Nesaie wrote:
Wing-Zero wrote:
Nesaie wrote:I've always believed that morality is born with us.


Oh really?

Some people, right at the time of their birth, are going to be good people?


Define "good".

Life is subjective.


Exactly, so to say that morality is born with us is rediculous.

Our character is built from surroundings, not predetermined in the womb.
War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life
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Postby Dark-Samus » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:57 am

Concedering that most people are evil on this planet I`d say that humans are born evil and stupid.

You have to deserve the name "GOOD"
"GOOD" is unatural while "EVIL" is natural. :roll:

And "OBSERVER" is all powerful oh yeah. :twisted:
Truth doesn´t control you, you control it...
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Postby Nesaie » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:16 pm

greeney2 wrote:
You supported Bush and water-boarding. I didn't. (As soon as John gets a chance to archive the old site, we can bring up those old conversations.)


That is a lie!


Really? Which part? You're support of the Bush administration or your support of water-boarding? The current water-boarding thread shows your defense of it and the "legalities" with it. You're squirming in that thread, trying to defend ineffective torture.
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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