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Hope for cancer sufferers

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Postby rath » Wed May 20, 2009 4:09 am

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Last edited by rath on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nesaie » Wed May 20, 2009 11:21 pm

This stinks too much of Mustard Gas. That is where the idea for Chemotherapy came from. What was noticed in WWII was that after some soldiers got hit with Mustard Gas was that it attacked the "fast growing cells" AKA the white blood cells. So, they created the first chemo from a liquid form of mustard gas.

In the wiki article I read, it mentioned "cancer cells". Do doctors know a true definition of what a cancer cell is? Or, is it still just a fast growing cell, like the healing white blood cell? I've also heard a comparison between a cancer cell and an embryo cell, is that because they're both fast growing?

When it comes to disease, I can never believe that killing any part of the body could help heal it. Instead, I'd rather fight it like armies. When it comes to bacteria, it's better to arm your body with more good bacteria. Eventually, they'll take over all the territory of the bad bacteria, and the bad bacteria will all be dead. Maybe that theory has helped to contribute to this article? Maybe they know that cancer is created by virii, so by adding competitive virii, they can take over the territory of the bad virii?
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Postby rath » Mon May 25, 2009 9:12 am

Nesaie wrote:This stinks too much of Mustard Gas. That is where the idea for Chemotherapy came from. What was noticed in WWII was that after some soldiers got hit with Mustard Gas was that it attacked the "fast growing cells" AKA the white blood cells. So, they created the first chemo from a liquid form of mustard gas.

In the wiki article I read, it mentioned "cancer cells". Do doctors know a true definition of what a cancer cell is? Or, is it still just a fast growing cell, like the healing white blood cell? I've also heard a comparison between a cancer cell and an embryo cell, is that because they're both fast growing?

When it comes to disease, I can never believe that killing any part of the body could help heal it. Instead, I'd rather fight it like armies. When it comes to bacteria, it's better to arm your body with more good bacteria. Eventually, they'll take over all the territory of the bad bacteria, and the bad bacteria will all be dead. Maybe that theory has helped to contribute to this article? Maybe they know that cancer is created by virii, so by adding competitive virii, they can take over the territory of the bad virii?



This is about Virotherapy used to HELP in the cure of a disease or medical condition, like cancer /Aids.

Viro-therapy is a treatment.
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Postby Wing-Zero » Mon May 25, 2009 8:30 pm

Nesaie wrote:In the wiki article I read, it mentioned "cancer cells". Do doctors know a true definition of what a cancer cell is?


Uhm.

Isn't it a cell that mutates beyond its normality?
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Postby Nesaie » Thu May 28, 2009 8:23 pm

Is an embryo "normal"?

The reason for chemo is because Mustard Gas killed "fast growing" cells, like embryonic cells. They found this out by accident in (I believe) WWI or it could have been WWII, I forget. Because Mustard Gas kills these "fast growing" cells, Mustard Gas was the first chemo ever used for "treatment". All chemo is based on the theory that it kills "fast growing" cells, not "abnormal" cells. So, the "treatment" of cancer is to target "fast growing" cells. They may be considered "abnormal" in adults, with the exception of white blood cells, but they're certainly not "abnormal" in a pregnant female or her child in the womb. Embryonic cells grow "abnormally" fast, but they're supposed to.

Do you want some information on the history of chemo? Or white blood cells? Or how embryos cell divide? Embryonic cells have a lot in common with cancer cells.

This original story reminds me of the same flawed guess about what cancer is and how to "cure" it as what happened with the chemo industry.
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Postby Lashmar » Fri May 29, 2009 2:17 am

it was found in WWI my dear. ;)
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Postby Heiko » Fri May 29, 2009 3:02 am

Chemo therapies I'm aware of all target fast growing cells in the body and kill them. Cancer cells, in general, are normal tissue cells that have lost the ability replace themselves normally and are growing out of control, which is the main thing that differentiates them from normal cells. Chemo is essentially a targeted poison. The side effects experienced by chemo patients are the result of other fast growing cells in the body that are not cancerous being killed by the poison.

Chemo is not a cure for cancer. It's is a therapy intended to limit the growth of cancer cells, buying time for the patient (and profits for the pharmaceutical industry). It also makes patients very, very sick in the process. It's not as bad is it has been in the past, but it is extremely unpleasant and often worse than the cancer, at least in the early stages. Sometimes, chemo manages to kill all the cancer cells in the body without killing the patient first, and the patient is "cured". Doesn't happen often, though. Typically, the cancer comes back again at some point because either not all the cancer cells are dead and continue to reproduce, or the cellular reproductive mechanism, which is still potentially broken, just starts over again. Again, chemo is not a cure, just a therapy.

A cure would fix the underlying problem, which is malfunctioning cellular reproduction and the result of damaged or mutated genetic material in the cell.

I hear there is some promising research into virus therapies in terms of using them like screw drivers to fix the broken genetic material that causes the uncontrolled growth, which is more along the lines of a cure. Viruses are usually the mechanism used for gene manipulation because that is essentially what viruses do; they borrow genetic material and manipulate it for their own reproduction.

I understand that chemo research still gets most of the money, though. And anything that tinkers with genetics is pretty carefully portrayed in a negative light, people tend to cringe a little when they hear the words "genetic manipulation", which no doubt helps to limit funding those avenues of research. A cure for cancer might be very bad for the economy.

This new virus therapy sounds like just another method of doing what chemo does, which is targeting fast growing cells. Not a cure.
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Postby Wing-Zero » Fri May 29, 2009 4:05 am

Nesaie wrote:Is an embryo "normal"?


Obviously, considering its purpose is to grow into a full whatever the hell it grows in to.

Thats the difference, Embryos are SUPPOSE to grow like that. It's NATURE.

But skin cells turning malignent and transforming into a giant tumor? Thats not f**kin' normal. Skin don't play that game, hence Cancer.

If you have a fancier name for it that'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread, go for it.
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Postby Nesaie » Fri May 29, 2009 8:44 pm

Lashmar wrote:it was found in WWI my dear. ;)


Thank yah darlin'.
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Postby Nesaie » Fri May 29, 2009 9:08 pm

Heiko,

I too am one of those who doesn't like the idea of virii or bactirium introduced into "cures". That is how corn and soy get their DNA changed genetically. The side effects have been detrimental in lab animals. Genetic modification just causes more cancers, it isn't a cure.

There has been an ongoing theory that cancer is actually caused by various virii. After all, now that there is the vaccine for HPV, we know that big pharma has known that it's been caused by a virus for years. It wasn't until after the vaccine came out that it was admitted that that is one form of cancer that is caused by a virus.

You want a cure for cancer? Prevent it. Eat organic food, without industrial waste from pesticides and fertilizers. Don't use a microwave. Eat 100% organically grass fed animals. Don't eat genetically modified food, that does cause cancer. Don't use aspartame, that too causes cancer and worse, thanks to Rummy. That is just a start. Unfortunately, it is impossible to eat right in the US. The water ways are all polluted by the drug companies like Monsanto. They're the same ones who have murdered millions of people all over the world. They created agent orange, PCBs, rBGH, etc. Now they're genetically modifying more than 90% of the corn in the US, rapeseed (canola oil), and soy. They genetically modified these seeds to be able to fight off another product they created that poisons, roundup. Isn't that funny how they created the problem in the first place, the roundup, and then came up with a solution to it. ;)

But, I digress...when ever genetically modified and cancer are put in the same post, I automatically think of the murdering chemical corporation known as Monsanto. They're controlling the governments of the US, Canada, and Mexico through the SPP, which is an extension of NAFTA. They also own the big pharma corp called Pfizer...I should get off my soap box and save it for another time. Sorry.
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