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Nuclear Detonations 1945 - 1998

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Postby Alalu » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:42 pm



This is why WMDs matter. This is why we should stop proliferation.
The United States is insane. 1032 nuclear detonations and crowned champion.
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:03 pm

I've seen this before, it is quite amazing to watch. A few countries surprised me where detonations occured.
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Postby Alalu » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:30 pm

The American west is buku radioactive.
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:27 am

Alalu welcome to the board. I am not sure that we are crowned much of a champion in terms of test blasts, however you also need to consider the post WW2 arms race, and serious tensions with the USSR. It was a time of military advances in technology that was compared to todays computer technology being obsolete almost as fast as it comes available. The race for the long range bombers, SAC bases, ICBM's was all from the treats Russia presented, where there was no choice. I am old enough to remember Krushchev taking off his shoe, and pounding it on a podium while he screamed like a madman, Russia will bury the USA. The Cuban missile crisis time growing up nearly had us to the brink of war. The late 60's began some progress on Nuclear Arms treatys, and slowly both countries began to disarm.

I do not agree the western USA is full of radiation. Yes, in the early 50's, late 40's open air testing was done, and a controvery that John Wayne, and others filming some John Ford movies in Northern New Mexico were exposed to fall out from that, and eventually developed cancers. It was only a theory, his family never wanted to entertain. We began underground testing in Nevada, and still had some big open air tests in the Pacific. Russia was testing very large bombs in siberia that fallout drifted into Wisconson and was testing in milk. They tried to explode a 100 megaton detonation but was too large, but still tested a 50 megaton bomb, the planes were able to get far away from, You should search that and read about that blast, it is quite an amazing story.

We have the NORAD system, which detects anything bigger than a campfire coming at us, and the time to react. This is why the Cuban missile crisis was a major concern that just off our coast, they could get us. I am much more secure with the big powers then I am thinking about India and Pakistan, who hate each other and both have nukes pointed at each other 5 minutes apart. who else would join in if they fired them? What would China do? Today tensions are rising again with Russia. Wish I knew the answer to it all, but throw in the middle east countries like Iran, if they get the bomb, or can make a dirty bomb, what would happen. Bottom line is very sad, in that we can not give up our military edge to counties like these.
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Postby Alalu » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:28 pm

Thanks. I am very familiar with all that history and I understand the reason for developing these weapons. If a weapon can be developed it will be. I just don't see why we had to detonate 1032 of them, approximately half of them in the western US. That seems insane to me.

BTW, I used to sleep with a nuclear weapon under my pillow. Sounds rediculous buts its pretty much true. They have very loud alarms attached to them! Setting off that alarm required a report to a certain agency in D.C. who then come and investigate. And they have NO sense of humor about it. Luckily it wasn't me who set it off. Nukes are a PITA.
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Postby greeney2 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:05 am

Wasn't trying to lecture you, as I do not know your age and background, I grew up in the 50's and 60's so lived through these times, is why I have my perspective on it. Insane would be to not respond as the USA did to the post WW2 escalation of tensions, and the arms race that was part of it. What Russia could have done to us, and may have, was an option we were not about to take. As for humans, yes it is all insane when we consider this is our only earth to live on, and we do more to cause annihilate of ourselves everyday. Why we required technically to have so many tests, I could not tell you. Open air testing was nuts I agree, and underground not much of a consolation either.

I would be wonderful if our world could live in harmony, and was an earth of total peace, but we all know it is not. It would be nice if there were never another war, but we know that isn't here yet. We have a lot of subjects to discuss that are equally insane that threaten mankind, and are not part of our military weapons between countries. Things that if we do not get a handle on them, the nuclear bombs we all have will not even matter. Pollution, air quality, industrial poisoning of our waterways, pesticides, world food supplies, depleting or our oceans, ecological disasters that may be irreversible. Just the extinction of the honey bee could be disastrous in terms of pollination, and if the bees disappear, what will that do to food supplies.

Pick an insane subject we have a lot of them. I live in the Western USA, and we are not glowing. Yes the nuclear Nevada proving grounds are full of radiation where these tests were, but IMHO the least of our problems. If you have any great solutions to what none of us created, I'd love to here them.
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Postby Alalu » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:10 pm

I think we are basically in agreement but we might differ on priorities. I have to be careful what I say here. The reason for me posting this comes from my experiences in the US Navy. I was part of an operation that was very highly classified and therfore I cannot discuss any details about what happened. Its not possible for me to overstate it. Even the President was not allowed to know the details of the events. But it directly relates to what you said about the USSR. Russia is not our friend but they are not the USSR. The USSR had military leaders who were truly insane and I believe they were planning an attack, without authorization from the politicians. That is just my take on it. But through pure luck combined with direct intent we destroyed those plans. I can't discuss how we did that however. Politicians on both sides were kept in the dark and for good reason. At the end of the day the person in power is the guy with his finger on the trigger.

In countries where they have some form of dictatorship the military has the real power. And they often cannot be stopped by politicians. See Egypt.

I think that the average person has been reading and watching tv shows about WMDs for so long that they have become complacement about them. Plus politicians having played politics with the topic in the recent decade has contributed to the problem. I think this is dangerous. Now you see whats happening in Syria and our troubles with Iran and N. Korea? People mistakenly think the threat is low. So I hope this thread will bring this problem into people's consciousness.
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Postby greeney2 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:29 am

I'm guessing a little, but assume your Navy experience may have been something in the Nuclear Submarines, as it related to the arms race. The stalemate at least for the idea of a nuclear attack has been the subs. Take all the conventional bombers, ICBM's, to see who have the edge to win (if there is such a thing) and the subs were able to strike the blows that would make any attack on us futile, the subs would get them, if everything else failed. Probably still true today, however they may not totally be able to hid the subs anymore, which brought in all the technology of Stealth for bombers and Naval ships, sattelites. That along with the computer technology, now technology is reaching further in all the Star Wars technology. Where does it all end, God only knows, but now as we see many other countries are joining in with China way up in the technology levels too.

We are now in very strange times with all the middle east problems, where the countries are dictatorships, unlike many like the old USSR, Germany, Italy, where the country was identified with one leader, like Hitler, Stalin, or Mussolini. Now it is a network of extreme Islamic that are not so easy to identify, nor connect with a specific country, they are involved with all of them. Its no longer fearing the highest technology, when all it takes is a few willing to die, driving a Domesday devise into a major city in a beat up old van, and blowing it up. They have no end to those who would do that, they believe they will be rewarded in Paridise. How sick is that? And who would you retaliate against when the game is "hid behind the terrorist, it wasn't us", which is exactly what Syria is doing, denying they used Sarin Gas, and blaming the rebels. We don't know who to shot at, or where they really are from anymore. The dictatorships of WW2 were easy to see, they were the ones in Nazi uniforms. The invisible terrorist, no uniforms, they just all blend in.
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Postby Alalu » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:57 pm

Fighting terrorism will be a real challenge, since it is not centralized. I fear that it is too easy for a terrorist org to be manipulated by other people and directed to attack us. We might never know who is behind the attacks, much like MK assassins. Now consider what happens when the terrorists gain access to WMDs. I believe that day is coming. Talk show pundits and government officials are quick to declare these attackers as cowards, but I repeat that these tactics are military based. And those with the most developed system of warfare may be the ultimate source of today's terrorism. Our new enemies may turn out to be our old enemies.

Where was Muhammed Atta's terrorist cell stationed before the 9/11 mission? Answer, Hamburg, Germany. So that cell was likely preparing an attack in Germany. Who would want to attack Germany? Pretty short trip to the answer. Who is sticking their nose in the situation in Syria? Who has used chemical weapons before on his own people? Who came up into power during the Cold War and still harbors that state of mind? Who is threatened by the US waging war in Afghanistan?

Do you think the current adminstration is capable of figuring it out? I would think the CIA has explored this at length. Surely they are smart enough.
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Postby Alalu » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:16 pm

I just thought of something. If this guy knows about that thing I can't talk about then that raises the stakes. And given what organization he came out of, he might be just the one to know. Oh man. And here we have what I believe to be an MK attack on the Navy happening all too close to the current situation in the Middle East. I hope the CIA has got their sh** together. Its easy to see signs of a comprehensive attack going on. We need to be asking more questions about Lexis!

Now you see my concern?
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