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Postby orangetom1999 » Wed May 22, 2013 9:33 am

at1with0 wrote:Since Jesus was not Joseph's son, Joseph's whole line is irrelevant. What is relevant is the lineage of Mary.


Though it has been some time since I have read it...as I recall ..the line of Joseph was from Solomon...and Mary was from David. However, I may have these two backwards.



What is relevant is the lineage from Luke chapter 3. If you look somewhere about line 31/32 of Chapter 3 of Luke..you see Nathan, David, and David's father Jesse...then back all the way to Adam.

What is relevant about Mary is that she had known no man.

As I recall the records of all Hebrew males were kept in the temple...
All the Pharisees and Hebrews Leadership had to do to discredit Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins...was to go to the temple, pull the records, and show that He did not have the pedigree..going back ..according to the Hebrew Prophesy. Then no one would have believed Him. The problem was that the records showed He was who He was. The records were correct. This is one reason they..the Hebrew Leadership had to kill Him.
For He would have shown the Hebrew Leadership to be the scam artists that they were.



You are correct...Joseph's line is not relevant.


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Postby at1with0 » Wed May 22, 2013 9:48 am

Does the Bible give the lineage of Mary?
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Postby orangetom1999 » Thu May 23, 2013 10:06 am

at1with0 wrote:Does the Bible give the lineage of Mary?



Biblical lineages are kept through the male line. This is what you see in Luke chapter 3.

In this case it is not the line of Joseph..and hence his line is not important.

Nor is Mary's line as well since she knew not a man. This is what makes this very interesting verses what the educated intellectual world is trying to do in this case and for many years now...going back to Barbra Thiering and Robert Eisenman...including groups like the Black Madonna et al.

This was necessary for Him to be born without sin.

When you deal with Occult Luciferianism...they are constantly in the physical...back to the sex/sexuality..to identify and categorize by sex and sexuality. This is what caught Satan and his minions off guard in this case ..while trying to taint the bloodline of God's people. For they always had it figured as a sexual reproduction thing....just like most of the major religions of this world unto this very day.

And with the advent of the cross...it became a Spiritual thing..not a blood line thing. Now...today..since the cross.....the only Blood which counts..is His blood. Not the blood of goats and bullocks...et al....the sprinkling of an heifer...but His Blood. Nor the blood of temple virgins et al. From the groves and high places in the daytime and in the valleys at night. Nor the blood of sexual reproduction...and any such ritual. But of the Spirit.


Thanks,
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Postby at1with0 » Thu May 23, 2013 10:11 am

So Jesus' line can't be traced back to Adam.....
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Postby qmark » Thu May 23, 2013 7:03 pm

at1with0 wrote:Does the Bible give the lineage of Mary?


Many scholars believe that the lineage in Luke is that of Mary and the lineage in Mathew is that of Joseph.

http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matt ... and-luke-3
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Postby at1with0 » Fri May 24, 2013 7:38 am

Seems strange that Mary's lineage would be cited in Luke 3:23 since Luke 3:23 says Jesus is the son of Joseph.
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Postby orangetom1999 » Fri May 24, 2013 9:26 am

at1with0,

So Jesus' line can't be traced back to Adam.....


The line of Jesus can indeed be traced back to Adam and this is what we see in Luke Chapter 3.

It is very interesting that we have the perfect man recording this lineage...a Gentile Doctor...Luke.

And we see there the line from Jesus back to Adam.



Qmark,

My thanks to you for reminding me where is the other recorded lineage...in Matthew.

What is of interest to me in the four gospels is the lineage or in the case of Mark..the lack of lineage which takes place.


Matthew is recording Jesus Christ the King....From David.


Mark is recording Christ the Servant...and the lineage of servants is not recorded. No lineage here as in Matthew or Luke.
But what we often see in Mark is the word "Straightway." Straightway ..He did this or went there as a busy servant carrying out the will of His Father.

And of course ..Luke...lineage as a man ..from Jesus back to Adam...as recorded by the perfect person to do so...a gentile doctor.


John records the lineage of Jesus as a Priest...the High Priest. And it begins in the river Jordan where He is baptized by John the Baptist and there takes on His priesthood. And this is not the Levitical Priesthood..but the Priesthood of Melchizedek...the everlasting priesthood.
And thereupon we see His Ministry taking place.


I have heard people debating the flesh ..as in lineage..but to me this is a moot point. What is important to us is that He was born a lamb without blemish...such that the prophecy would be fulfilled. Sinless....that He was of the correct tribe....that he was of the everlasting priesthood.of which Moses spoke nothing...but it is recorded back with Abraham when Abraham returned from the wars.

That his pedigree was correctly recorded in the temple..and the Pharisees ..all they had to do to discredit Him..in the eyes of the people..was to go to the temple and pull His records to show He was not as claimed....that He was not the product advertised. And it is not recorded that the Pharisees did this.

For this is one of the reasons the records were kept in the temple of every male Hebrew.

But humans by intellect..by reason..by logic try to get around this by every imaginable manner. All of them of the flesh...not by God's will.

I find this interesting to observe when you know for what to look.

Thanks again for reminding me of the other lineage from Matthew.


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Postby qmark » Fri May 24, 2013 2:48 pm

at1with0 wrote:Seems strange that Mary's lineage would be cited in Luke 3:23 since Luke 3:23 says Jesus is the son of Joseph.


You are over looking a crucial part of Luke 3:23.

When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli,

The clear indication here is that He is not the biological son of Joseph.

Context is very important when reading the bible and sometimes we tend to forget the context of THE TIMES that it was written. Women were second class citizens in the eyes of many Jews at that time and it would not have been proper to address the woman's lineage outside of the reference to the man that was over her.
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Postby at1with0 » Fri May 24, 2013 5:07 pm

If Jesus isn't the biological son of Joseph, then Jesus' line can't be traced back to Adam by what is contained in Luke 3.
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Postby qmark » Fri May 24, 2013 7:48 pm

at1with0 wrote:If Jesus isn't the biological son of Joseph, then Jesus' line can't be traced back to Adam by what is contained in Luke 3.


Yes it can because both, Mary's and Joseph's. lines go back to David, and David's line goes back to Adam as evidenced in Luke 3.
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