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simple question on gun control

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Postby greeney2 » Wed May 15, 2013 4:51 pm

No, but he seems to think there is a simple answer to the gun issue. That is a simple answer and it would work, but nobody wants a big brother society. It is very complex, and goes to the heart of our Constitution, and freedoms, proposing giving them up further on account of those who do not abide by the rules. Criminals!
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Postby at1with0 » Wed May 15, 2013 7:58 pm

Well I guess we should do nothing because the current system is clearly working.
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Postby Halfabo » Wed May 15, 2013 11:44 pm

at1with0 wrote:
Perhaps the simplest solution to government is abolishing it and use an intelligent form of anarchy.



There is no intelligent form of anarchy.
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Postby greeney2 » Thu May 16, 2013 12:45 am

At1 I see nothing wrong with the existing California system, I am not familiar with other states. I believe we are the strictest state. You can buy a gun but they have to do the 1 or 2 week wait, and clear you with the defense check process. You can not just walk in and buy a gun and take it, and private parties have to do the transfer at a gun shop, with the same process. Because of the vast numbers of legitimate gun owners, who use them according to our laws, hunt legally, target shoot following rules of the areas, I am not in favor of making all of us, pay by having our gun freedoms taken away, especially when they have no way of regulating all the criminals and bad guys. We should not have our ability to protect ourselves restricted or taken away, when the police are under staffed now.

Extending the laws to exclude mental health problems from purchasing guns, is not very clear cut. How would you have guidelines for that, and still maintain Doctor confidentiality? To what degree of mental health would they consider dangerous? What degree would be considered irrelevant, or would they just abuse the citizens. Where is the line drawn? Who would they determine could be a murderer, if they just had some kind of counseling? No felon can ever own a gun, so would they say anyone who ever had a psychological office visit would be a mental case, and not allowed? Family counseling, anything involving a therapist? Teen age behavior problems, they all have them.

Do you have a reasonable solution?
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Postby capricorn » Thu May 16, 2013 5:34 am

blackvault wrote:
greeney2 wrote:You want a fool proof answer of how to control gun use, you will not like the answer but it is simple. EVerybody gets chipped, and at anytime you can querry what chips are at a given GPS and a given time, meaning the time and scene of any crime. Crime is virtually solved.


Would you support something like that?


For argument sake, lets assume that society implemented a "chipping" program. It would no doubt fail miserably. First of all, the assumption is that there would be no way to remove, disable or even hack the chip. This assumption would be wrong. In fact, I'm sure these chips would be hacked on a daily basis. Could you imagine being wrongly "labeled" a violet criminal? Forget the gun issue, could you imagine what would happen if you simply went to the grocery store to purchase some apples and as soon as you scanned your chip for purchase, the red siren goes off and the swat team shows up with weapons drawn.

No, I don't believe there is any solution devised by mankind that can put this age old question to rest. I think Albert Einstein said it perfect when he made this quote about nuclear energy. "The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an "existing one.""
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Postby at1with0 » Thu May 16, 2013 8:53 am

Halfabo wrote:
at1with0 wrote:
Perhaps the simplest solution to government is abolishing it and use an intelligent form of anarchy.



There is no intelligent form of anarchy.



Pretty much my point.

greeney2 wrote:Do you have a reasonable solution?


Honestly no. But I think not questioning the way things currently are working adds to the problem.
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Postby capricorn » Thu May 16, 2013 10:14 am

at1with0 wrote:
greeney2 wrote:Do you have a reasonable solution?


Honestly no. But I think not questioning the way things currently are working adds to the problem.


I'm all for an intelligent approach... but I don't think rushing laws into existence is the answer either.
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Postby greeney2 » Thu May 16, 2013 10:29 am

Capricorn, they are close to the chipping concept, when the first thing they do is get cell phone records, and tie those call records, GPS, and cell phone towers. Many crimes have been solved using those records to connect someone to a crime. Any system can get tricked or hacked, or just a glich can make it fail, but in theory it would work. The assumption like you say would be everyone had one, and they were never messed with, so it sounds foolproof. It also sounds foolproof to advocate just taking away all the guns from everyone.

Point being, the same bad guys will mess with either avenue, and all the good guys will go along with either avenue. In the end, you only give another advantage to all the criminals, when you disarm all of us.

No At1, there is no simple answer for a solution. We just bark up the wrong tree, and nobody knows what the right tree is. It sounds simple when you hear an Adam Lanza, was a recluse in his room, had mental issues, and was obsessed with violent video games. Wow, that sounds like every other kid on the block. So who are considered those who could potentially murder? You would think that the worst gang member in the inner city, with poor grades, poverty, would be the one to do these things, but it seems to be affluent, good kids, in areas you would never imagine. Nice quiet Colorado neighborhoods, New England.
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Postby bionic » Thu May 16, 2013 12:24 pm

Wing-Zero wrote:
bionic wrote:Bcause someone is making money off war?
Because we are aiding people that will probably turn on us one day?

My big question about gun control..and it's not even one asked much in the gun control ommunity (aka, "those pinko leftie twits")
Is why is their no age limit on who gun own and or use a gun?
There is an age limit on consumption of alcohol, smoking cigarettes, driving a vehicle, joining the military..but any kids can own and shoot a gun??
That is insane to me.


Of course there's an age limit. You have to be 18 to buy a rifle or shotgun and 21 to buy a handgun. Now, privately you can give your kid a gun at any age (just like how you can technically give your kid a smoke or an alcoholic drink).



oh, okay..tks for clearing that up for me
I honeslty thought kids could own rifles because you see kids out hunting with their parents and such all the time
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Postby Wing-Zero » Thu May 16, 2013 5:30 pm

bionic wrote:oh, okay..tks for clearing that up for me
I honeslty thought kids could own rifles because you see kids out hunting with their parents and such all the time


If their parents decide to trust them enough, they can give them a gun as a gift. Technically that gun is theirs, but the parents can always take it away from them for whatever reason (as parents always do). You cannot be legally entitled to any firearm by purchase or gift until at least 18. Inheritance is a different matter, I think.
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Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

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