The Black Vault

That "pastor" missed the entire point of tithing. As Christians, we know this entire Earth is 100% God's Earth. We are custodians of this great gift. God gives us 90% of the best of our work on it.

The point of the 10% is to show that we love God and his creation more than we love our material works/gains. While some believe it is okay to give God 10% of whatever they have left over, the real point is to give 10% off the top before we focus on our selves. And the kicker is, it doesn't need to go to God, but it can go to our fellow man in need. Maybe the guy in your community who just got back from war and can't get back and forth to work due to a lack of reliable transportation. Or, how about the woman and child in the checkout lane who are $3.00 bucks short and have to put some groceries back. The chances to share your good fortune is endless. Point is, God doesn't need our money or gifts. The point is to show that we love God's creations, including our fellow man, more than we love accumulating material wealth solely for our own selfish needs.

The pastor missed a perfect opportunity to share with his waiter a tithing fitting one who just took his time to properly and graciously serve that pastor. Instead, the pastor felt the need to justify his greed with his poor excuses. And to insinuate that the waiter, who had just served that pastor all his food and drink, was somehow taking from God's plate, simply by handing the pastor a receipt with an area for the tip to be written in, is just ludacris.

You can not serve two masters at any one time. And this time, that pastor served Satan well. Who knows the fallout/ripple effect this story will have as more and more people of all backgrounds hear of this selfish and shameful display of so called Christianity.

I believe you are correct here Smokin Joe...

real point is to give 10% off the top before we focus on our selves.

I believe this is sometimes called "First Fruits."

Thanks for phrasing it in that manner.

Orangetom

Does any of this really fing matter? Beyond ego BS..does it? Your soul is yours to do with it as you will. Do It? Get over it, already. It's exsaulsting..this BS game (this ego driven, which has NOTHING to do with soul!) game. grow up, already. So says any kinda 'God', I am sure...

Gosh, a man of the cloth coming out with such nonsense, firstly i find those who cling to religion to be the worst of mankind, they think that going into a supposed holy building once a week absolves them of any moral issues they may face the rest of the week.
Most people who are enlightened understands that those who serve on the floors of restaurants are some of the lowest paid staff around, those people rely on tips to make up their megre wage packet, if anyone is so against tipping make sure the place you are eating at adds extra for service or not, then make an informed choice on your rather pathetic principles.
personally i tip when ever the occasion arises, unless of course i received less than satisfactory service.

hello all, what a great site.

Monica 1968,

Gosh, a man of the cloth coming out with such nonsense, firstly i find those who cling to religion to be the worst of mankind,

While I don't necessarily agree with the tack of the minister for both historical and religious reasons, I don't quite agree with the second part of your statement.

For you see Monica I can make the same kind of statement about today's religion called Politics..and people clinging to it ..including public education financed by politic and the body politic/governments. For it was a result of the "Enlightenment " under the Encyclopedias that the French Government turned on their own people....and under the guillotine killed one out of five Frenchmen...20%. Enlightened people did this Monica.

The same type of anti god nations...continued on in Soviet Russia, Communist China to continue killing millions of their own people and continue to do so today..in order to bring about their Utopia.

What I find of most interest Monica is that our News Media and public education financed by our own governments tends toward totally avoiding this understanding.

This kind of thing also happened in the former Yugoslavia in the 1980s/90s while the rest of "Enlightened " Europe stood by and did nothing.

One need not go back that far into history of "Enlightened " people ..people of reason and logic to find this religion taking place among educated ungodly leaders and people...while putting the onus off on religion.

they think that going into a supposed holy building once a week absolves them of any moral issues they may face the rest of the week.

This Monica is textbook of Public Education non standards today...intellect, reason, and "Enlightenment." For you see Monica...those who can still think know that the Church is the assembly ..the people ..it is not a building. The Church meets and the Church goes home.

Most people who are enlightened understands that those who serve on the floors of restaurants are some of the lowest paid staff around, those people rely on tips to make up their megre wage packet, if anyone is so against tipping make sure the place you are eating at adds extra for service or not, then make an informed choice on your rather pathetic principles.
personally i tip when ever the occasion arises, unless of course i received less than satisfactory service.

Most people Monica who are "Enlightened]" know that there are people out here who come in all types, thoughts, and ideas and many of us take severe RISKS in our occupations for our monies. Who these people are I cannot specifically say except for myself..but I know they are out here. I have worked in the restaurant business and know how it operates and the degree of difficulty and skill it takes to accomplish much of it and keep it in perspective to offer good product and service. I also know this against what I currently do and the RISKS I currently take for my monies.

The original post was about people taking a tip as a given ..for granted..a default setting. Very much what you are attempting to do in "Entitlement" and attempting to pass this off as "Enlightenment." I find it to be neither.

I am not against tipping at all..I just don't care for me and my labors/RISKS to be taken for granted by a 18% automatic gratuity...a given...a Entitlement. I will decide what is the gratuity against the RISKS in earning my monies.

You should be very careful what you think it Enlightenment..often it is another watch word for "Entitlement " of others goods and services without taking into consideration what RISKS people take in earning it. This is also exactly the tack of another serious religion taking place out here. A very devout and zealous religion ..a religion of "Enlightenment, reason, and logic " which finances public education. I am speaking here of the Body Politic/Government and it's devout and zealous priesthood.



In this case I find a restaurant taking for granted a 18% gratuity automatically added to my bill..to be no different from a Government devoutly and zealously passing on more taxes and entitlement onto my paycheck while taking me for granted. I would say the same thing for a Church which demands a 10% Tithe or gratuity automatically...that they are attempting to take me for granted and function as a government.

I am in total agreement with the concept of "Separation of Church and State" as I know what Whoredoms both Church and State will do when in bed together. I know this from a religious standpoint as well as a Historical standpoint. Both Church and government have histories, if left unchecked, of taking advantage of peoples for their souls and pocketbooks when reaching for "Absolute Power/Divine Right of Kings."
I do not agree with it at all when a restaurant attempts to carry on this way as a government with my monies and RISKS taken in earning it.

I am not in agreement with the tack of this pastor. Nor am I in agreement with the restaurant in the article. I don't consider either group to be "Enlightened."


Thanks,
Orangetom

Well, now that you probably scared Monica away after her first post, Welcome to the board Monica. Do not be afraid to express your opinion on a subject here, it can get a little spirited sometimes, but don't give up.

I could see OrangeTom as the welcoming in the "church or assembly" that just dictated, "This is the way we think here, and you better like it, or go someplace else" at the front door. OT there is no correlation between a government taxing you and a restaurant tipping standard, except what you conger up in your mind. You get off on your one track tangents about public education.

I think Tom has not spent much time in public education. He does make a lot of assumptions about it though. Like someone who says a book sucks without reading it. I spent several years in Catholic and Lutheran schools as well as several public institutions such as U C Berkeley and CSU San Francisco.

He didn't like it when I said atheists are more generous than him in the restaurant.

Where been At1? Thought you bailed on us.

Yeah, as though waiters and waitresses don't take RISKS, eh, Tom?

Oh I've been lurking here and there...g2

Greeny2,

Thanks for filling me in that that was Monica's first post. I was not aware of that as I posted in reply.

I think Monica has thicker skin than to be ...I think you said..."scared off??"

I believe that someone who comes in with a carte blanche standard default setting like this one....

Gosh, a man of the cloth coming out with such nonsense, firstly i find those who cling to religion to be the worst of mankind, they think that going into a supposed holy building once a week absolves them of any moral issues they may face the rest of the week.

is pretty much standard issue of todays "Enlightened Peoples " working off standard issue default beliefs....or more appropriately .."Entitlement " beliefs.

Once again...you have to go to public school to get that "Entitled."

Once again I do not believe someone is "Entitled " to a gratuity without my consent or approval..otherwise they are working off a tax or fee system..similar to government. Work one does for which one does not get any goods or services or consent to such....contracted to.

And like many governments there is a failure to disclose going on here. I did not see a sign out front or on the menu stating 18% gratuity automatically added in the bill.

This is the definition of a tax...work one does for which one does not get any goods or services. Also the definition of inflation.

This is rapidly today becoming the definition of government.

Which is also why I dont agree with your statement here.

OT there is no correlation between a government taxing you and a restaurant tipping standard, except what you conger up in your mind. You get off on your one track tangents about public education.

And by the way Greeny2..if you watch and listen closely you can see them speaking of and posturing/maneuvering for more taxes right now. Not just the rich but on everyone.


At1with0,

Think this through carefully as to the nature of what you are saying here..in the bigger context of what is being discussed.

Yeah, as though waiters and waitresses don't take RISKS, eh, Tom?

So this justifies taking for granted the monies earned at RISK of other peoples/customers?? By Entitlement?? Just reach into someone else's pocket for 18% on top of the bill for dinner. You deserve it ..the others don't!!

Oh..and as regards this at1with0...

He didn't like it when I said atheists are more generous than him in the restaurant.

I dont particularly care what atheists tip. That is their monies and I dont tell someone else what to do with their monies. This is a very simple concept but probably to convoluted and deep for someone who has been to U C Berkeley and CSU San Francisco.

There are those of us out here who are not interested in being herd animals...no matter what they try to teach in the MSM or in public schools. Along with that is the understanding that we dont try out for the approval of others.

You see at1with0...we dont think that California or New York are good example of default states by which the rest of the nation should be following. We happen to think that the states and their peoples should decide for themselves. Not follow California or New York.


Thanks to all for their posts,

Orangetom