The Black Vault

While I am not justifying the extent of Australia's problem with alcohol during this festivity...I also know many other nations have the same or similar problem around certain days or events.

Next weekend here in America will be our Super Bowl game. I will not be watching it nor buying the products as well as not digesting the advertising glorified on the Tube.

I also noted some years back, when going out on the road and to the stores, that many people flooded the stores before kick off time and after kick of time the roads and stores were noticeably empty. I suddenly realized I was witnessing a sociological and economic trend or event.

I was however perfectly content to go into the stores after kick off time. I did not watch the game with the bulk of Americans not will I we watching it this coming weekend.

I also note the rowdiness and general two legged wildlife which have been attending many of the Football Games around the world for some years now. Alcohol consumption seems to be a part of this phenomenon as well. I have no desire to watch this kind of wildlife in it's natural habitat as well...American or any other. Another sociological /economic phenomenon.

If this is greatness or fun...you can keep it.

Nonetheless...Australia has no monopoly on such two legged wildlife. It is everywhere trying to pass for fun and intelligence in trends.

Thanks,
Orangetom

OT, I could not agree more at least with the concept that, too many things are just another stupid excuse to drink, and be out in the car as part of that. I have no quams about celebrating ones National holidays but if you drink, do it at home, and stay at home doing it. Go out and do your buying sober, come home and get Popeye drunk, but stay at home. Drinking and driving is the problem for everyone surrounding you.

While I agree with you on that level OT of the wildlife on the roads, I disagree about like how we differ about Birthdays and Christmas trees. Nothing wrong with a super bowl party, or just watching it by yourself, or with family, and enjoying the game. Having a friendly pool in a get togather, and even having a few beers, and watching the commercials. Its a national past time, but I do draw the line about getting into the car, when its all over.

Australia Day, is their national past time, and they celebrate it. It is not my fault that the article points out certain hazards and risks to some of their citizens, who are victims of the drinking, that Rath is so glad to brag about. Unfortunately it is those in denial of their own behavior, that end up running someone down on these kind of days. They are a dime a dozen and the AA meetings are full of them, but usually after the damage is done. I agree every country has its idiots, including the USA, on days of National celebrations and holidays. Like I said, for some people its just another good excuse or reason to be a jerk, and endanger others on the road drinking, and than have the audacity to say to everyone else "Get out of my way or its your fault".

[quote="greeney2"]Australia Day drinking problem
Simon Lauder reported this story on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:22:00

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ELEANOR HALL: If Australia Day is a reflection of our nation's identity, the latest evidence suggests that we have a major problem.

A study examining 10 years worth of emergency response calls shows more young Australians get drunk and violent on Australia Day than on any other day of the year.

The authors of the study say it's partly a cultural problem but they say it's also one that can be addressed by government action.

In Melbourne, Simon Lauder reports.

SIMON LAUDER: As Australia Day approaches, the emergency services are getting ready for a busy day. Brian Russo is a senior paramedic based in Melbourne.

BRIAN RUSSO: Look normally we do expect - particularly Australia Day where you've got the heat, people have got the day off - we do expect that there's going to be alcohol involved. When we arrive at a scene, you can obviously get big groups of people, various levels of intoxication, some people are a bit aggressive, uncooperative, so it is quite challenging for paramedics.

SIMON LAUDER: Do you think it's a problem that's got worse over say the last decade?

BRIAN RUSSO: I think it has, it's something that we tend to notice as paramedics, that people do seem to be more likely to lash out. People certainly tend to use weapons more now, so yeah it's something that we have noticed over the time, that it has continued to increase.

SIMON LAUDER: Heavy drinking has played a part in the Australian way of life since the arrival of the first fleet in 1788. So much so that Australia Day is now the day Australia's young people are most likely to drink themselves sick.

BELINDA LLOYD: Particularly for young people, we found that it was actually the worst day of the year across acute intoxication, assaults, and motor vehicle accidents.

SIMON LAUDER: Dr Belinda Lloyd is the lead author of a study which analysed 10 years of police data on assaults, hospital admissions and ambulance call-outs in Metropolitan Melbourne from the year 2000.

She says it's the first strong evidence to support what most people take for granted - Australians get through a lot of alcohol on public holidays.

Dr Lloyd says most drinking takes place the day before a public holiday.

BELINDA LLOYD: The exception to that thought is Australia Day where, particularly for young people we've found that it was actually the worst day of the year across acute intoxication, assaults and motor vehicle accidents.

SIMON LAUDER: Why do you think that is?

BELINDA LLOYD: Well, it certainly raises a number of issues around alcohol availability, around its acceptability of use and also around a culture of drinking. We did find that Australia Day was the second worst day across all other groups for assaults and so it certainly is a time of increased alcohol related harms across the whole population but young people seem to be particularly at risk at this time of year.

SIMON LAUDER: What is it about Australia Day do you think that makes young people want to get drunk?

BELINDA LLOYD: I certainly think that there's a degree of acceptability around intoxication at this time of year. Australia Day falling in the warmer months of the year, we know that warmer times of the year are certainly associated with increased alcohol consumption.

But we see quite sustained alcohol promotions and cut price alcohol deals in the lead-up to Australia Day and that's teamed with a whole range of sporting events that really are - have a lot of alcohol advertising associated with them and very much a culture of drinking.

So we have at this time of year cricket, the Australia Open, a number of other major sporting events where there's quite extensive alcohol advertising at that time.

We also see very focused alcohol promotions through bottle shops but also through on license premises and this certainly raises some concerns about alcohol consumption and the acceptability of drunkenness in the community.

SIMON LAUDER: Brian Vandenberg is the manager of alcohol programs at the State Government agency, VicHealth, which commissioned the study.

BRIAN VANDENBERG: I think it is a little bit sad, it's a bit embarrassing for Australia that our national public holiday is marked by a lot of binge drinking and that our police force and our ambulance services and hospitals are picking up the pieces.

SIMON LAUDER: Mr Vandenberg says most Australians drink responsibly but the problem needs to be addressed.

BRIAN VANDENBERG: Adults can play a role by acting more responsibly as role models to young people in the way they drink. I think the alcohol industry can be more responsible in the way they market and promote alcohol and I also think the Government has a role to play in addressing the price of alcohol through taxation policies and also the way liquor laws are established so that people are not inundated with alcohol in their face every day and there's a limit on how much alcohol is available.

SIMON LAUDER: The report found that events associated with public drinking and warm weather are the most likely to bring out violence, drunkenness and traffic accidents, which also puts New Year's Day near the top of the list.

ELEANOR HALL: Simon Lauder reporting.
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Booze-related violence to peak on Australia Day, ABC Melbourne, 24.01.2012
Police sick of 'drunken violence', ABC News, 25.11.2011
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Voluntary alcohol restrictions proposed for Australia Day, PM, 14.01.2010
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thanks for your honesty greeny 2 ....
How do you compare drinking with gun slaughter in your own country ?
Maybe a few beers is just as bad as a schoolyard slaughter in your eyes ..A moment of celebrationfor australia and you feel the need to conjure up an article which is based on opinion and not fact,neither is it cultural although as even Sam( raths post) would have you believe the stereo typing and inuendos.
I am just as flipant about my posts and opinions at times ,but then again mine seem to have more fact than fiction in the more serious of topics.

What is with this overly assertive national pride?

Personally, I think USA, Britain, Canada, Australia, France, China, Brazil, Mexico, Italy, Greece, Spain, South Africa, (and so on and so on, apologies if I didnt name your country) are all great places

At the same time, all these places have their own respective problems.

Likewise, All these nations have contributed greatly to the world.

A Place like Germany has contributed immensely to the advancement and progressiveness in our world. Then again they also were home to the Nazi party; one of the worst political parties in history. But; am I going to say Germany is a horrible country to live because of this dark portion of their history? Of course not.

I love the USA; there is no other place in the world I would rather be. However, my wife is noy American; she loves her country. I never argue about my country being better than hers (except maybe in sport lol) because the argument would not and could not be apples to apples.

I'm not a bleeding heart; I'm just a person who feels that this overly nationalistic pride can be detrimental to the advancement of our civilization.

We are all humans with different challenges in life but all with pretty much the same aspirations.

I am happy for Australia; they have a lot to be proud of. They are a great nation who has contributed a lot to the world. Are they the greatest nation in the world? Is is the greatest place to live? Depends on who you are. If you are Rath then yes... and I wouldn't dare disagree with that. If you are Me, then the greatest place to live is the USA.

I think we should be respectful of how others view their homeland; but at the same time, we should never go around brandishing our "faith" like a weapon.

chiselray wrote:thanks for your honesty greeny 2 ....
How do you compare drinking with gun slaughter in your own country ?
Maybe a few beers is just as bad as a schoolyard slaughter in your eyes ..A moment of celebrationfor australia and you feel the need to conjure up an article which is based on opinion and not fact,neither is it cultural although as even Sam( raths post) would have you believe the stereo typing and inuendos.
I am just as flipant about my posts and opinions at times ,but then again mine seem to have more fact than fiction in the more serious of topics.

First off, let me compliment Capricorn on the previous post. Very well stated... but I had to comment on the above.

I do agree, and I have said this directly to rath before, there is nothing wrong with national pride. In fact, I complimented Australia, the people and the country itself in previous posts. I don't knock it.

But why feel the need, then, to come back, and compare gun violence, to drinking, all to show why the USA again is so inferior to your country? I re-read the above posts, and unless I missed something, there was no comparison made until you just posted this, so, why? You're comparing Apples and Cars. There just isn't a comparison, and neither point proves either country is either better or worse than the other.

All I did was post an article from your own country, by your own journalists, that point out the short comings of drinking on that day, for many others. As you can also read, I stressed in my follow up to OT, all countries have this problem and stated celebrating ones national past times is Okay, but driving while you are drinking for it is not. AS much as you would want us to think it, all is not perfect in Australia, you just can't handle hearing it. When statistics and articles are given to you from within your own country, it is hard to deny, but somehow you and Rath both manage to. Your statistics were lies, now this article is not credible. It ia all out of your own News stations, or in the case of gun crime statistics were out of your own criminal bureau.


I wanted Rath to know while flaunting every Australian Day or National pride is fine, it is never without anti-american put downs along with them, which is his primary goal. He has done nothing but bash every opportunity he can, my country, but I am not supose to react or defend it? You hear one thing that was not even made up, it came from Australia, and you get all offended. The source is given complain to them.

This has nothing to do with any of the gun control subjects whatsoever. They are 2 different problems, and neither has a bearing on the other.

Greeny2

While I agree with you on that level OT of the wildlife on the roads, I disagree about like how we differ about Birthdays and Christmas trees. Nothing wrong with a super bowl party, or just watching it by yourself, or with family, and enjoying the game. Having a friendly pool in a get togather, and even having a few beers, and watching the commercials. Its a national past time, but I do draw the line about getting into the car, when its all over.

I believe we are always going to disagree about christmas and or other holidays..birthdays etc. No problem with me on this.

No ..nothing wrong with someone watching the bowel game. I just will not be doing it nor purchasing the products advertised. Not for me thanks.

I do not tell another how to spend their hard earned monies...that is their business and individual liberty to do so. I just choose mostly when people go one way or to follow a certain thing ..it is a warning flag to look closer at the sociological event for certain markers.

I too draw the line at operating machinery when drinking ...handling a gun , reloading, or any such. I greatly disapprove of such conduct anywhere at anytime.

I am not against alcohol. I just choose not to have it center stage as a "Lifestyle " of importance. I have plenty of alcohol for my own uses around here Greeny2. I just refuse to make a career out of consuming it in lieu of things I consider more important and front stage..including doing nothing. But that is my way Greeny2.


I also know of to many people who have indeed made a career out of alcohol and ruined many a life around them including that of their children. I greatly disapprove of such conduct and will separate from such peoples quickly. This too is my way.

You do what you want at your house. You are driving that bus and I think it best that you do so..not me.
I also believe you driving your own bus is best..and not government.
This too is my way.

By the way...Greeny2. I believe Rath has issues..personal issues. I have seen people with degrees following this same pattern.

You often see me describing this as "good cop/Bad cop." They must always find bad guys on whom to vent their ire or powerlessness.
This is becoming standard bill of fare in politics of late and also very predictable.

When I see someone like Rath using this technique in a "Pro Australia " method..I am forced to ask myself if Rath and their people are even Australian ..or merely an import.

Good cop/ Bad cop...and looking for someone else to beat up in order to support ones position ..good guys/bad guys..is becoming standard bill of fare in education and politics today...since politics is financing public education.

One learns when reading material like that of Rath to seek out what is missing or not posted and connect that into a pattern..against those who invoke thier ire.

As I stated...to someone else..I am not into this Unzipping type stuff ..to see who has the biggest one. But you can see this over and over in the quest for oneupmanship.
Some of us outgrew that stuff years and years ago. When you know this it gets more difficult for these people to emote you into not thinking. Because it becomes obvious that emotions/instant gratification is their number one baillywick. They must prey on people who know even less than they in order to set the hook. And so too it is with what is attempting to pass for leadership today.
That these or similar types of people are in leadership positions today is a scary thought.
For they can cause huge amounts of chaos..but little leadership. Same fingerprint as on these boards.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

orangetom1999 wrote:Greeny2

While I agree with you on that level OT of the wildlife on the roads, I disagree about like how we differ about Birthdays and Christmas trees. Nothing wrong with a super bowl party, or just watching it by yourself, or with family, and enjoying the game. Having a friendly pool in a get togather, and even having a few beers, and watching the commercials. Its a national past time, but I do draw the line about getting into the car, when its all over.

I believe we are always going to disagree about christmas and or other holidays..birthdays etc. No problem with me on this.

No ..nothing wrong with someone watching the bowel game. I just will not be doing it nor purchasing the products advertised. Not for me thanks.

I do not tell another how to spend their hard earned monies...that is their business and individual liberty to do so. I just choose mostly when people go one way or to follow a certain thing ..it is a warning flag to look closer at the sociological event for certain markers.

I too draw the line at operating machinery when drinking ...handling a gun , reloading, or any such. I greatly disapprove of such conduct anywhere at anytime.

I am not against alcohol. I just choose not to have it center stage as a "Lifestyle " of importance. I have plenty of alcohol for my own uses around here Greeny2. I just refuse to make a career out of consuming it in lieu of things I consider more important and front stage..including doing nothing. But that is my way Greeny2.


I also know of to many people who have indeed made a career out of alcohol and ruined many a life around them including that of their children. I greatly disapprove of such conduct and will separate from such peoples quickly. This too is my way.

You do what you want at your house. You are driving that bus and I think it best that you do so..not me.
I also believe you driving your own bus is best..and not government.
This too is my way.

By the way...Greeny2. I believe Rath has issues..personal issues. I have seen people with degrees following this same pattern.

You often see me describing this as "good cop/Bad cop." They must always find bad guys on whom to vent their ire or powerlessness.
This is becoming standard bill of fare in politics of late and also very predictable.

When I see someone like Rath using this technique in a "Pro Australia " method..I am forced to ask myself if Rath and their people are even Australian ..or merely an import.

Good cop/ Bad cop...and looking for someone else to beat up in order to support ones position ..good guys/bad guys..is becoming standard bill of fare in education and politics today...since politics is financing public education.

One learns when reading material like that of Rath to seek out what is missing or not posted and connect that into a pattern..against those who invoke thier ire.

As I stated...to someone else..I am not into this Unzipping type stuff ..to see who has the biggest one. But you can see this over and over in the quest for oneupmanship.
Some of us outgrew that stuff years and years ago. When you know this it gets more difficult for these people to emote you into not thinking. Because it becomes obvious that emotions/instant gratification is their number one baillywick. They must prey on people who know even less than they in order to set the hook. And so too it is with what is attempting to pass for leadership today.
That these or similar types of people are in leadership positions today is a scary thought.
For they can cause huge amounts of chaos..but little leadership. Same fingerprint as on these boards.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

I guess when you boil it down, don't we all have issues, including you if you are honest? Drinking is not one of mine by way. Yes, we will never agree on a few things, as I know your views stem from a very strong religious base, which is how you see it. I noticed you referred to the bowel game and bowl game, very clever, as you always are. There are times when you make a lot of sense OT and are able to "step out" of the content of what is being said, and see the underlying pattern of motivation. Such as what you say about Rath, and others by the way (me sometimes), you are ale to be very astute about these things. But sometimes maybe you read too far into things, such as thinking I am about to go running out and buying these superbowl products, because of the commercials. I wish I could count how many times I say to my wife, "What are they thinking, they just spent $1M, on such asinine nonsense, would you decide to buy that based on that commercial"? Some of the content of these commercials is so off the wall, it doesn't even relate to a single reason why I should buy their product. As far as the game is concerned, I am one of these guys who never watched a single minute of football this year, do not know any of the main players, and do not even know who is playing. But I can enjoy seeing the world series of football. I think I herd last night who is playing, I'm that out of touch. I'm one of the guys in the shops on Monday mornings who just sat around waiting for the shift to start, hearing all the other guys talking the games, and armchair quarterbacking.

Kind of like here on the board, everyone guards their opinions like they just won the superbowl, including you OT.