The Black Vault

chiselray wrote:no wait rath ,of course you can kill somebody if you don;'t have an automatic weapon,according to capricorn you could just make one ?

I agree .... his claims are just plain stupid.

It's a lot easier to kill large number of people if you have 2 or 3 machine guns & a grenade propelled rocket launcher, than it is if you turn up to a school & need to built your gun from scratch.

just the time alone it would take to make even the most basic part of the gun, a bullet ......... Who has that much horse crap, & piss to make gun powder.

IOt's an insane argument to make that people can just make guns & bombs at home, when ( lets face it ) even if they could, how powerful can these weapons be when put to the test.

Even a home made bomb would require buying large amounts of Ammonia nitride & such other components. & that alone would raise homeland security's attention & other agency red flags. ( who monitor the phone's & internet ) .......

His point is a childish one.

More over .... if all you currently need to do to kill large numbers of people is take your mothers guns from her shoe closet .....

Just shows the USA need gun reform.

rath wrote:Even a home made bomb would require buying large amounts of Ammonia nitride & such other components. & that alone would raise homeland security's attention & other agency red flags. ( who monitor the phone's & internet ) .......

Wow, so you believe in the efficacy of an American government agency?

For those who think it takes a PHD or that one must be a rocket scientist to make explosives, I recall a book called 'The Anarchist's Cook Book' that explained in detail how to make homemade hand-grenades from a simple soup can. There are many such books out there as well as websites. As at1with0 already explained, the knowledge is out there and cannot be unlearned. Oh and plenty of people do make their own ammunition from scratch, not just recycle either. There are also a number of people that do make weapons from scratch as well, not just modify existing weapons. You'd be surprised at the things a few guys can accomplish in their garage on the weekend.

at1with0 wrote:Wow, so you believe in the efficacy of an American government agency?

The problem I see happening and for which so many are avoiding the issue is expansion of government power into the private arena.

Specifically the ability to own ones private property. This single issue is what separates America and Americans from the rest of the world.

Those of us Americans who know this about America..and American "Rights" verses privileges granted by a soverign...know that it is the ability to accumulate and have discretion over private property which has always separated American from the rest of the world.

Americans who still know about private property/Persuit of Happiness as the Declaration of Independence and Constitution calls it...Americans who do not live by their fears and insecurities ...Americans who do not live by television and movie standards...public education fears and insecurities...have no desire to become as is the rest of the world.

What most do not see happening ...is that if they can take from us our guns....they can take our cars and homes...when sufficient numbers of overly emotional...green type drama queens get into office. They can by government decree/executive order...command from the soverign ...take from you any private property they desire...contrary to the charter of government. The charter of government now only becomes window dressing.


This is the line for which most people on this and other issues fail to recognize. That a slope is right in front of them.



En Lugal..

I have a copy of that book for which I would not recommend that people follow it. There are not sufficient details in it to make and handle many compounds safely. I've had it for over 20 years. Someone else just gave me a second copy of it.

I have a trade background as a machinist building aircraft carriers and submarines ...including nuclear work...including handling the nuclear fuel itself

Someone is worried about me with a gun??? LOL LOL LOL..now that is funny. But it is the politics of fear.

Not all of us run around here in fear and trembling when we see someone with a gun.

I can hand make/fit many machine parts down to .001..or one thousandths of an inch. I know how to hand make my own lockpicks..and lock shims. Build a silencer if needed. Drill and tap holes...fabricate nuts and bolts. This is not high tech but it requires an attention span for which most peoples with a television/movie/politicial education/indoctrination lack.

This does not make me better than other people..but I have become aware that it makes me very different. And I do not think much of Hollywood and Washington DC. Particularly once I learned they are in bed together and against the Ameican People. I have no desire to follow a Washington DC and Hollywood standard in anything as I know they will change like the wind and I have no desire to keep up with such.

I worry more about people who are voters who have little more than a Movie and television education. People who have someone elses emotions..someone elses thoughts, someone elses values transplanted into them by Hollywood and television/Washington DC and know it not.
And these people are now voters.
The problem with this kind of institutional ignorance passing for voters is that they will tend to vote away someone else's property. I do not consider this to be leadership..nor thinking.


I worry more about people who go down the road every day texting and talking on their phones. People who daily handle dangerous substances and cannot put their cell phones down long enough to concentrate on what they are doing. I've seen this aplenty.
Most Americans are asleep on the wheel in the extent of this stuff going on.


I am also very aware that there is something very immoral/unjust about a system where someone commits a crime and government decides to go after the property of those who were not involved in the crime and take their property...remove or modify the ability of those who have not committed any crime to acquire own or have discretion over property. To punnish someone who did not commit the crime.

I find this kind of conduct on the part of government to be highly suspect,immoral, and destructive. Someone commits a crime and someone else pays for it. This makes me question governments ability to represent the people..their moral authority.

If government can do this over this incident...what other property can they immorally and unjustly remove from citizens under another guise?? There is something very un American about how this is being handled...but it is very worldly.

In America ..you do not punnish people and remove from them their property ..who have not committed a crime.
This too is what separates Americans from the rest of the world and why Americans do not desire to be like the rest of the world.



Rath...

Those of us who know what it is to be American have no desire to follow the rest of the world and be like them. We do not want to follow a sovereign. We value our private property ..all of it earned at risk. We believe in the privateness of property. We also believe we are the best stewards of our property earned at risk. Not the government.

As far as we are concerned ..the rest of the world can keep going on down the road...we will go in this direction.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

John posted on his facebook an article saying that there is an impeachment bill in Congress now.

at1with0 wrote:John posted on his facebook an article saying that there is an impeachment bill in Congress now.

I've not caught up with this news at1with0...thanks for bringing me up to date on it. Going to check it out on The Drudge Report.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Here is the bill about the impeachment:

obama-impeachment-bill-now-congress-t8478.html

orangetom1999 wrote: Rath...

Those of us who know what it is to be American have no desire to follow the rest of the world and be like them. We do not want to follow a sovereign. We value our private property ..all of it earned at risk. We believe in the privateness of property. We also believe we are the best stewards of our property earned at risk. Not the government.

As far as we are concerned ..the rest of the world can keep going on down the road...we will go in this direction.
Orangetom

orangetom1999 wrote:Those of us who know what it is to be American have no desire to follow the rest of the world and be like them. We do not want to follow a sovereign. We value our private property .

It's all fine to say that Orangetom, but it's complete nonsense.

You cant copy the rest of the world by introducing fair & free elections ( the Australian Electoral system ). You cant copy the Laws & human rights of other nations, the right to own land, the right of woman to vote, the rights of children to go to school ect ect
( even taking the US constitution & basing it on the laws from other nations ).


Everything the USA is ..... comes from things you have copied from other nations over the past few hundred years.

So forgive me if i laugh when you claim thing like,

orangetom1999 wrote:Those of us who know what it is to be American have no desire to follow the rest of the world and be like them. We do not want to follow a sovereign. We value our private property .

at1with0 wrote:

rath wrote:Even a home made bomb would require buying large amounts of Ammonia nitride & such other components. & that alone would raise homeland security's attention & other agency red flags. ( who monitor the phone's & internet ) .......

Wow, so you believe in the efficacy of an American government agency?

Not really .... but there are some dame fine cops / agents out there, not to mention a lot of citizens who keep an eye out for suspicious activity's. ( business owners, neighbors ect ect )

Rath,

It's all fine to say that Orangetom, but it's complete nonsense.

Oh no Rath..it is the greatest difference in this nation and other nations. That a peope have private property and the discretion over it..not the government first and the people somewhere down the road. It is on this basis that the charter of our government was written. This because of the methods of a Sovereign who disregarded the ability of a people to determine what to do with thier private property.

Everything the USA is ..... comes from things you have copied from other nations over the past few hundred years.

So forgive me if i laugh when you claim thing like, orangetom1999 wrote:
Those of us who know what it is to be American have no desire to follow the rest of the world and be like them. We do not want to follow a sovereign. We value our private property .

Not copied rath..examined...but not copied. For example we have a law system where one proves guilt ..not where the individual has to prove their innocence as is done in most nations. This here is called the presumption of innocence. In most nations in the world the presumption is of guilt and the individual has to prove their innocence.
We Americans have no desire to follow the presumption of guilt. And this is where it is going with this new gun control business...that Americans are guilty but were not involved in the crime being touted in the news but yet the news and leaders are operating on the presumption that Americans who own guns are guilty of some kind of tresspass. It is not so..and if this is how the rest of the world thinks and acts...we dont want it here. Presumtion of guilt. No thanks.

Someone here, in like manner to the rest of the world, is attempting to do the same with rich people ..operating on the presumption that rich people have broken some higher law ..therefore it is kosher to persecute and try rich people in the press and the body politic and work to take property from them as well. Yet no law has been broken by them. No court case has taken place..not trial...no guilty verdict.

It is easy to predict that more of this will be taking place..trial by press and mob justice. This is not the American way...but it is the world way..international way. No thanks ..it does not belong here. But it is easy to predict that we are going to see more of this kind of Un American conduct on the part of our leadership.



Last few hundred years..copied from the rest of the world?? Wow!! Are you ever way off. Try thousands of years. Public schooling Rath??

The Founders here knew the history of many nations and thier laws going back before the Greeks. They examined them and liked certain items of their histories and did not like others. They also knew enough to examine the histories of these nations...how and why they failed.
This is why our governing document is so peculear. It is actually a very short document compared to the governing documents of most nations.

And government educated wise men have been trying to sneak around it ever since the beginning..often without the people knowing they have done this.

Those of us who know this hisotry have no desire to become like the rest of the world..no matter what their laws say. We will go our own way.

Thanks,
Orangetom