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Postby at1with0 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:56 am

orangetom1999 wrote:John 3:16 is a proof text that God loves. But what it is teaching is that God loves those He chose for He has put into them the ability to see and hear...Him and His Word. He did not do this for the Pharisees...just as He did not do this for Esau..of the same lump of clay as Jacob.


Some interesting speculation.
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:49 pm

http://www.netbiblestudy.net/bulletin/new_page_71.htm

Found this and a few other interesting articles with it. Puts your views into perspective. You fill in your own blanks with your own editorials of what it all is suppose to mean, or means to you and your church teachings. That is the approach you are convinced is the only approach. I think the end paragraphs sum up what it means to you. Last line may tell it all.
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Postby orangetom1999 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 pm

Greeny2,

My thanks for that link. I have bookmarked it for future reference and reading.

I am familiar with the five points of Calvinism or the Tulip as it is sometimes called.

Also the business or Pre destination or millineal predestination.

I found many of the lectures to be interesting including the one about Christmas and Easter.

However..I disagree with him about non alcoholic wine. I believe most wine back then was alcoholic. As to the percentage of alcohol ..that is easily debatable..probably pretty well unregulated at all. I've had some pretty strong wine in my time.

But nonetheless..there is an instruction, to my limited Knowledge, not to be drunken. It does not say not to drink. Just not to be drunken.

I am not familiar at all with the author of most of those lectures...Ron Boatwright.

But I have heard of the theme in most of his sermons and lectures.

What he sounds like is an olde school baptist.

Nonetheless...thanks for that link and I have bookmarked it for reference and reading.

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Postby greeney2 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:26 pm

http://www.fact-index.com/c/ca/calvinism.html

Here is another link, that explains a few things about your beliefs. Not quite sure where you fall within it all, but a few things you say align you with some of the Hyper Calvinist views.

Like I said and I will repeat it, your views are your views, according to your religious beliefs. Those clearly date back to when that religion, and Lutherans separated from the Roman Catholics. Pretty obvious many religious theology have grown over the centuries, we all do not think along he same lines. I'm sorry our beliefs and how we both express them are from different worlds or at least beliefs and backgrounds. I think its pretty clear how Calvinists like yourself regard all others from what these links have said.
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Postby orangetom1999 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:33 pm

greeney2 wrote:http://www.fact-index.com/c/ca/calvinism.html

Here is another link, that explains a few things about your beliefs. Not quite sure where you fall within it all, but a few things you say align you with some of the Hyper Calvinist views.

Like I said and I will repeat it, your views are your views, according to your religious beliefs. Those clearly date back to when that religion, and Lutherans separated from the Roman Catholics. Pretty obvious many religious theology have grown over the centuries, we all do not think along he same lines. I'm sorry our beliefs and how we both express them are from different worlds or at least beliefs and backgrounds. I think its pretty clear how Calvinists like yourself regard all others from what these links have said.




I know about Calvinists and the five points of the tulip..also about Protestantism and Catholicism and agree with none of them.

Most Protestants ..like Republicans are "Democrat Lite" ..Protestants are become Catholic Lite. The Protestant Churches are a far cry from what once they were. They too have been seduced just like were the Hebrew leadership of ancient times unto today.

One look at the history of churches in this nation from the beginning unto today...would clear this up..about Protestants being Catholic Lite.

I gave it away to someone interested.. ...but at one time I had a very olde book ..over a hundred years old called "Separation of Church and State in Virginia."
The print was very small and difficult to read in the olde style but it was a very informative book about even in colonial times how the churches were maneuvering unto mischief and vieing for government sponsorship and power. All of them..even the Catholics in this nation up in the northern states...and even in colonial times.
The founders were very concerned with this type of mischeif because they knew the history of Europe..both Protestant and Catholic and how government and the churches misused their power to get over on the people. They knew these two government and religion had to be separated. Not the people separated from their religion as is being done today...but religion separated from government power and excesses...such that the two are not in bed together so to speak.


What many do not know is that there existed a third line of churches not affilliate with Protestant nor Catholics..and they were always here from the beginnings of His ministry in the River Jordan and John the Baptist who suffered it to be so in Baptising Him...unto today right here ..still in existance. Most history teaches that there was only Protestant and Catholic ..not true.

These Believers..while they know the history of the world and the various churches and demoninations...follow none of them and have little to no affilliation with them unto today.

The pedigree of these third line of churches is that they are among the ones who chose not to attend the Council of Nicea..in 325AD with Constantine and company. But they existed long before Nicea.

These of the third line of churches..are still here with us today and meet with small groups around the country..do not have tax numbers and do not fill parking lots with cars and people. Like the churches of olde..they are in this world but not of this world. They went by different names throughout the centuries but the doctrine was and still is the same.
And they teach to their flocks...."The Whole Council of God".

Thanks,
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Postby at1with0 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:58 pm

How can you ever teach someone the whole council of god?
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Postby orangetom1999 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:13 pm

at1with0 wrote:How can you ever teach someone the whole council of god?




You know at1with0...this is a very excellent question..and my thanks to you for asking it.

I would suggest you start by knowing more than John 3:16 and thinking it is the default setting for the whole Bible.


For you see at1with0...the Word is a manual for Life. And Life takes a lifetime of learning, knowledge, and understanding. It is not something done between sound bites or a commercial interruption. It is a lifetime of work.

But you start with something other than a reference text..or even knowing the difference between a proof text and a reference text.

Thanks for an excellent question,
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Last edited by orangetom1999 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby at1with0 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:30 pm

My answer would have been "you can't."
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:45 pm

Like I said, you just think everyone but you are wrong, or at least anyone not aligned with the Calvinists beliefs. Even the links tell how intolerant your own Calvinists are to anyone who differs, or is in any way show nonacceptance to their philosophy. Pretty rigid, no wonder your parking lots are empty.
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Postby orangetom1999 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:33 pm

greeney2 wrote:Like I said, you just think everyone but you are wrong, or at least anyone not aligned with the Calvinists beliefs. Even the links tell how intolerant your own Calvinists are to anyone who differs, or is in any way show nonacceptance to their philosophy. Pretty rigid, no wonder your parking lots are empty.


Once again here you bring up a good point Greeny.

First off I am not Calvinist and have little use for them. As to intolerant....You of all people know from whence this business of tolerance comes or originates.

Somewhere in the Word...in the New Testament..the enemies of the Christians are describing them as The Sect of the Christians. My understanding of the word sect means ...separated from...from meaning away...separated...come out from amongst them and be ye separate from.
This does not mean being like everyone else. Another version of it is to be in this world but not of this world.

Now Tolerance Greeny2 is the fingerprint of the world and the god of this world. That one tolerate every kind of nonsense men want to devise. This tolerance is also having the children of the bondwoman heir with the children of the freewoman.

One of us has a Biblical view Greeny2 and one of us has the tolerant world view. Which one is it...you or me Greeny2 ???

Tolerance Greeny2 means mixing new wine with olde...leven with unleven. Are those God's instructions??? Tolerance means the children of the bondwoman shall be heir with the children of the freewoman.

Sometimes I don't think many of you are able to think it through in terms of what the Word declares and what the world has attempted to defile us.

Now the enemies of the Christians were correct when they described Christians as being a Sect...separated from ..not joining in with...but separating from. Which is what God teaches us.

And that Greeny2 ..is what the world and the god of this world does not want..people to think for themselves and to separate from his world class tolerance...which is really intolerance itself. For the world fingerprint is that as long as people are defiling themselves..Imperfect in their generations...it is fine. But if they are not willing to defile themselves after the manner of the world in tolerance..that cannot be tolerated.

The number one church for whom the god of this world has his sights on ..is Rome...then he will come for other churches. For he has hated Rome from the beginning. But not for reasons most people know or think. One can see this clearly in current events.

Thanks for your post,
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