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Postby greeney2 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:09 am

En-Lugal wrote:In other words, if you aren't walking with Him it won't do you a bit of good. Ultimately though, your salvation is in the hands of God the Father when He judges you.


In other words if you declare Christ is your savior, and live life accordingly, your free will accepted Jesus, and your free will continues even after, in everything you do.
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Postby orangetom1999 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:22 am

Hmmmmmm....this is going to get interesting.

Remember something folks...Moses was a murderer....for he killed the Egyptian. So too was King David as he had Uriah the Hittite killed by placing him up front that he be slain in battle such that he ..King David ...could take the wife of Uriah

Salvation by works??? or by God choosing. By works...both Moses and King David deserved hell and damnation. If this is a yardstick by which to measure works...what chance do we have against these two men??

And at the same time ..Moses smote the rock bringing forth water and for his disobedience ...he was not allowed into the land God had promised to the Children.

David was severely punnished for his sin by the loss of several children.

But where did these people wind up..the destination???



As to accepting ...Christ...read carefully.


Ephesians..2:8&9


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Continuing on...

Ephesians 1:6
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


and again...

6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:




It is interesting to me that the dominant theme among many who claim to be Christians is that they accept...they do..they Believe..they do it all...they accept. They determine their end..their destination.

What one learns by careful reading is that God makes us acceptable..by putting his new creature into us...by his will..for his purposes. God does the accepting..by making us acceptable..by blood. Otherwise what happened on the Cross means nothing.

But God does the accepting..by making us acceptable to Him..by covering us with His Blood..God sees the Blood on us..not our works..but His Blood..This is what makes us acceptable. Not our works..but His Finished Work. His shedding of His Blood.


Those of you claiming works and accepting..are stating that it is not a "Finished Work." That we..somehow by our free will ...must finish the work that God failed to do. We are the determiner...we decide..we choose..it is not finished.

Problem is that the Word states ...clearly..."It is finished."

The interesting thing to me to realize.. after much agonizing over the two covenants..is that there is a whole system of dogma and theology out here which teaches and preaches that we are the determiner..we are the masters of our fate..we decide..we choose ..we put our monies in the box...and this is supposed to be Christian.

For as in many things in this world observed by the naked eye..verses the spiritual eye...they are exactly Backwards. One of these is a countefeit and the other is what God declares.

This too is why I keep bringing up the reading and knowledge of counterfeits...occult counterfeits for which so many deep down in their souls believe is true. And it is not.

Once you learn and think things through...you can see much of this around us daily. And it is waxing worse.. much worse.


Thanks,
Orangetom
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:37 am

So everyone but you has it wrong? How does someone with total tunnel vision figure out the counterfeit?
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Postby orangetom1999 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:43 am

Greeny2,

So everyone but you has it wrong? How does someone with total tunnel vision figure out the counterfeit?


Once again..I did not say everyone but me has it wrong. For I learned this path of thinking about counterfeits from elders.

Tunnel vision?? Do the passages I quoted above state what I said or do they state something else???

Thanks,
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:13 pm

I go back to what I have always asked. Can you explain to me how so many Christian religions can all have a different idea of theology, from the same book?
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Postby at1with0 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:22 pm

greeney2 wrote:I go back to what I have always asked. Can you explain to me how so many Christian religions can all have a different idea of theology, from the same book?


Well it is technically all in one binding but there are many separate books there.
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Postby orangetom1999 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:05 pm

greeney2 wrote:I go back to what I have always asked. Can you explain to me how so many Christian religions can all have a different idea of theology, from the same book?


Pardon me here Greeny2...but I am a bit astonished that you should have to ask me for such informations or understanding.

This is referred to in the Word as a "Falling Away".



You can see examples of much of the changes in the Word from this book by Gail Riplinger. IN her book

"New Age Bible Versions" Gail outlines where, when, and how many of the bible changes have taken place including in universities and seminaries.

Included are charts showing the different verses and what they say..next to the changes in the verses and what they now say...how they are changed..side by side...for the reader by which to learn.

One seldom sees a book like this where the changes are placed side by side for the reader's benefit.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/riplinge.htm


Also..Greeny2..once again..do not the passages I have posted say what I have been saying..that it is a finished work. We can do nothing.

For God chooses who are his...God covers him with His Saving Blood and for His reasons..not ours?? He finished it..it is a "Finished Work."

He Saves His people...alone..by Himself and for His reasons. We can do nothing...He did it all??

Thanks,
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:43 pm

John 3:16 as I said "speaks for itself", and its content is crystal clear. It doesn't say, now go read about the bondwoman under it. Whatever your quotes are above, you followed them all with a long explanation, of what you think it all means to you. You are connecting dots from all over the bible, and making up what it all is suppose to mean, or at least the theology of your church believes it means. That is fine for you, you learn from your elders, you read it all for what it means to you in your life. Others may have a different meaning for it, and in a different context, or do not even see the relevance at all.
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Postby at1with0 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:46 pm

greeney2 wrote:John 3:16 as I said "speaks for itself", and its content is crystal clear. It doesn't say, now go read about the bondwoman under it. Whatever your quotes are above, you followed them all with a long explanation, of what you think it all means to you. You are connecting dots from all over the bible, and making up what it all is suppose to mean, or at least the theology of your church believes it means. That is fine for you, you learn from your elders, you read it all for what it means to you in your life. Others may have a different meaning for it, and in a different context, or do not even see the relevance at all.


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Postby orangetom1999 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:50 am

greeney2 wrote:John 3:16 as I said "speaks for itself", and its content is crystal clear. It doesn't say, now go read about the bondwoman under it. Whatever your quotes are above, you followed them all with a long explanation, of what you think it all means to you. You are connecting dots from all over the bible, and making up what it all is suppose to mean, or at least the theology of your church believes it means. That is fine for you, you learn from your elders, you read it all for what it means to you in your life. Others may have a different meaning for it, and in a different context, or do not even see the relevance at all.


As you stated ...Green2...John 3:16 is not the whole Bible.
Yet here you are stating John 3:16 speaks for itself...but not referencing "The Whole council of God"..only John 3:16?? Do you not see something wrong with this position?

One of the things the Elders taught me ..was to beware of people who build their whole religion and belief system on John 3;16. And here you are.

Notice in particular Acts 20:27 about "all the council of god " or what is called " The Whole Council of God"

But also for context the Elders taught me to read the passages before and after what for one is looking to get context.

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I [am] pure from the blood of all [men].


Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.


Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.


Ths goes further...in the context but I think you get the idea.


Now Greeny2..I have posted passages from the Word which you, for whatever reason, are want not to comment on specifically to show where they are in error..but stick with John 3:16 as standing by itself.



There is in Bible Teaching what are called "Proof Texts" and "Reference Texts."

Proof Texts can stand by themselves. Reference texts will not stand entirely by themselves..but often people and "experts" who want to get the Bible to say what it does not say...will quote only reference texts...thinking no one will notice the difference..and most will not notice.

for example ...

John 5:24 and John 5:25 and it is difficult to argue or debate what they say. Usually what someone tries to do is debate those passages from another version of the Word..not the one being debated.


Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


There is no wiggle room here in a proof text like this..and hence this passage is seldom quoted by preachers teaching the world religion.

Talking about everlasting life here and being reborn after God's image. Covered in His Blood..able now to hear Him and His Word...even His Voice/Word away from the world around us.



What happens unless one knows..is that many people try to teach that one "gets" leverlasting life by these conditions...by these passages.

What these passages teach is that one "already has" everlasting life...."hath"..not gets..but Hath...already has Life...Life Everlasting..or Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins..whose name is also Life.

The key is knowing that not all heareth His Word. And this is taught in other places in the Word..in particularly when Jesus is rebuking the Pharisees. But one needs know the Whole Council of God to understand this..not only John 3:16. Because obvoiusly the Pharisees did not fit under John 3:16...for they are declared to be of their father the devil. Therefore the Pharisees are not part of the World of which is spoken about in John 3:16. God did not send his only begotten son for them..for if he did ..they would heareth God's word...ala John 5:24/25.

This is how one understands the Whole Council of God.

John 3:16 is a proof text that God loves. But what it is teaching is that God loves those He chose for He has put into them the ability to see and hear...Him and His Word. He did not do this for the Pharisees...just as He did not do this for Esau..of the same lump of clay as Jacob.

Hope this helps you and the other readers out here.

Thanks,
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