The Black Vault Message Forums

Discover the Truth!        

Religion & Spirituality

The National Christmas Tree

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby at1with0 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:31 pm

orangetom1999 wrote:at1with0,

Then you must be suggesting John 3:16 is wrong. Is John 3:16 a lie?


Nice try at1with0 but no good.

What I said..was "The Whole Council of God". Not just John 3:16 alone and out of context.

His world (Cosmos) is all those the Father hath given him...he shall lose not one. It does not include Esau the twin brother of Jacob...of the same lump of clay.

Who are all the Father hath given Him?? None of my business..but I know it does not include everyone and everything. I don't determine that ...He does.

His sheep hear His voice...not goats..but His Sheep hear him and come to Him. He died for His sheep.....He did not die for goats.

Nothing difficult about this understanding.

And futhermore ...this is 24/7..it does not rest on this time of year...this day. Because He is REST. Just like He is also Peace.



And I'm sure that OT believes he is an heir of the free woman. Am I wrong?


What I think or believe makes no difference. It is what He had declared..what He states in His Word.


Thanks,
Orangetom



No one can control whether they are an heir of the bond woman or the free woman, therefore John 3:16 applies in a more relevant way. Note that John 3:16 doesn't say "whoever is the heir of the free woman shall have eternal life," or "whomever God chooses shall have eternal life." You can try to pit another, more obscure passage to spin John 3:!6 the way you want it to read but its language is quite clear. In fact, you're showing another example of the Bible contradicting itself.

A God that only cares about sheep is not worthy of respect, worship, loyalty, praise, further consideration, etc. A God that cares about sheep and goats and all things just might be worthy of such.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9182
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby orangetom1999 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:46 pm

at1with0,

No one can control whether they are an heir of the bond woman or the free woman,


What????!!! Surely you jest here at1with0. For God most certainly controls this ..not we.

And John 3:16 uses the word "world' . In this case the word stems from Greek...Kosmos...or as we know it ...an orderly system/arrangement. THe World back then and also today is most certainly not an orderly system. It is by God's Word...a disorderly system. Disobedient, self promoting, rebellious,sinful....etc etc...nothing changed even today.

The warnings and admonishions from God were always to separate a people unto Him from out of this disorderly system of the World.

Thus meaning Gods Kosmos is not of this world

Thus also meaning that the world spoken about is the orderly system or arrangement of which He desires after His Word..not after the physical world. There is no contradiction here.


Furthermore...watch what happens when you read more of His word from John chapter 17.
Much is said there in the whole chapter 17 of John illustrating for us the difference in the world and what God's people were to do and follow.

Also look in particular verse 9 of John17..

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.


Now that you know this..go back and look at Galatians chapter four verse 30 concerning the two sons of Abraham.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.



Notice also here...more of towards the "Whole council of God." not just one passage.

He Prays not for the world..but for those the father hast given him

The son of the bondwoman is not one the father hast given him. Not part of God's orderly system/arrangement. Kosmos.

The world is not the orderly system/arrangement God made ..but he made it with His people..separated out from this world unto Himself ..those He chose and gave unto His Son. Those for whom He has put His Word into their hearts and souls. Those He covered with His blood. Those He made Heir.

This ...at1with0 ..is His Kosmos...His orderly system/arrangement.

Thanks,
Orangetom
orangetom1999
 
Posts: 1199
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:25 am

Postby at1with0 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:34 am

If you were correct, then believing in Christ's sacrifice for us would be an utterly futile endeavor.

I guess you better start praying that you're the heir of the free woman since your choices matter not.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9182
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby greeney2 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:47 am

So what did Santa bring everyone? :lol:
greeney2
 
Posts: 9588
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby at1with0 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:16 pm

He brought me lolz.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9182
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby greeney2 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:58 pm

Yeah! We didn't get coal in our stockings. :clap:
greeney2
 
Posts: 9588
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby at1with0 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:01 pm

The lolz Santa brought me didn't fit in my stocking.... :(
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9182
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby orangetom1999 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:44 am

at1with0 wrote:If you were correct, then believing in Christ's sacrifice for us would be an utterly futile endeavor.

I guess you better start praying that you're the heir of the free woman since your choices matter not.




It would be utterly futile an endeavour for those who are in this world and of this world and for whom God has not put His Spirit into them.

Who are these people for whom God has put His Spirit into them...I don't know..and it is none of my business. But we are told one thing about them. They know His Word..for He has put it into their hearts and remade them by His will...not by their will but by His Sovereign will...by his Sovereign Grace.

For the word itself...Believe...breaks down into...


Be or exist..

Lieve..life or live..

To be living...and it means here not in the pumper only ..but in Life....and He is Life..one of His names is Life...Life more abundantly.



As to whether I am of the free woman or not....that also is not up to me...but up to Him. He did it all...by His Blood.

For you see at1with0...we are not the determiner of where we are going to wind up...the destination... for chosen people do not choose...they are chosen.


In the world system...men choose..men decide...men are sovereign and god is subject.

That is the difference in the two systems...from the beginning. And it is still the difference today.

Orangetom
orangetom1999
 
Posts: 1199
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:25 am

Postby at1with0 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:05 am

Then why follow God's or man's law?
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9182
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby orangetom1999 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:37 am

at1with0 wrote:Then why follow God's or man's law?


Do you not understand the nature of the question you are asking here???

or this one here from another of your posts..the same pattern of operation.

at1with0,

You didn't answer the question.. Is it impossible to be a victim of discrimination?


and I replied..

You, at1with0, seem to be incapable of understanding what is posted concerning a counterfeit. I did indeed answer your question.


at1with0 posted..
Oh? I must have missed it. What was the answer?


For a counterfeit to work ..it must be based on a real thing...or at least that the mark believes a thing is real..otherwise the counterfeit will not work or function as needed.

The problem is that when you create a system dependent on racism to justify ones existance...it now de evolved to dependency on racism to justify one's existance or cause celeb. Now someone must have or create racism in the minds of the public in order to default through without opposition ..without question. This type of depencency is predatory and parasitical on the people it intends to control..it is in fact the very thing they disapprove of in others..a double standard. It is not intelligent or intellectual..but destructive on the whole system...or people.

Or to put it another way..someone out here is now counterfeitting a counterfeit..and thinking no one will notice it. THey are mostly correct on a people easily emoted and raised on a steady diet of movies, television, and or public education.



The same thing with your question above about following God or man. One of them is a counterfeit.

And many have tried over the centuries to re write God's word and privily substitute mans way in lieu of what God stated. They are today often debating two counterfeit positions, just like racism, instead of one Godly and the other a counterfeit...but instead two counterfeit positions and few realize it is going on...for they are so entrenched into counterfeits.

This is very much how our political two party system works..two counterfeit positions. This is the only explaination for why so little seems to change no matter what party is in office.

And people unthinkingly return back to the voting booth seeking change. The only thing which will happen is that events will go downhill. Because of the counterfeits.

Thanks,
Orangetom
orangetom1999
 
Posts: 1199
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:25 am

PreviousNext

Return to Religion & Spirituality

  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there is 1 user online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 292 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm
  • Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 0 guests