The Black Vault

at1with0 wrote:Then you must be suggesting that the weapon used does matter.

I thought it was people that killed people...

Unfortunately, the scale was lost in the translation. From a "nuke" to rifle, "the weapon used matters". However, from a pipe-bomb, to a rifle, to a hand-gun, to a vehicle, to a locked door and some gasoline, it does not. Ban all retards, first. Then we might discuss the need to change my culture. Don't like that word much, when the shoe is on the other foot, Lefty? That's right, guns and collecting and the heritage behind it all is a culture. You hypocritical, lefty lunatics fight and fight and fight for "the melting pot", the "diversity" and the "rights of everyone to celebrate their culture"...Until you get your panties soaked by something scary. You Hipster / Hippy / Hybrids represent every single thing that is wrong with our nation today. You want to actually wage a war against 250 million gun owners in "the name of peace and safety of our children"? How many lives will your blind and disgusting quest to disarm America actually cost? You is dumb as the day be long.

blackvault wrote:And just to add to that, with your logic, if the weapon doesn't matter, and if it kills it kills... then on the ban list:

Knives
Guns
Cars
Busses
Tractors
Hands
Feet
Bottles
Glass objects

Oh, and anything that can be sharpened.

That was my point, the weapon DOES matter. Clearly the line must be drawn somewhere.

I think the line has been drawn. It's not now down to redrawing the lines on guns... it's figuring out it ISN'T the guns... and it's the actual people using them. In the Newtown case... Lanza's mother carelessly giving access to those guns to a mentally disturbed person. That's the issue - not gun control.

blackvault wrote:I think the line has been drawn. It's not now down to redrawing the lines on guns... it's figuring out it ISN'T the guns... and it's the actual people using them. In the Newtown case... Lanza's mother carelessly giving access to those guns to a mentally disturbed person. That's the issue - not gun control.

Yes the line has been drawn. But saying it isn't the choice of weapon doesn't add up. The choice of weapon matters.

Perhaps all gun owners should be tested to see if they are mentally disturbed. But that would be impractical since they can lie. Are we going to blame mental illness now? If mental illness was a causal factor, then it should be the case that everyone (or most even) with mental illness is a mass murderer.

In this case I made the point he could have used any number of hunting guns, and maybe could have been worse. A sawed off 12 gadge couldn't miss too much in a small classroom, and I;m sure he could have reloaded more than fast enough. Even a ruger 10/22 could have casued severe damage, but they also make that some rifle with a 44 magnum chamber. You could make a long list a very capable guns, that will not be on the banned list every bit as lethal.



The kind of gun may be a factor but the more important factors are the mental condition, access to the guns, and the fact Mom was going to try having him committed. When the entire story is known, he will probably have a long history of emotional imbalance.

What will be considered a mental illness that takes the guns away? How will you regulate that if a mental problem comes along, and someone had bought their guns 10 years prior? Gun checks are great for the present buyers, but it doesn't help with future problems. Like you say, everyone who goes to the shrink, isn't a mass murderer. And certainly everyone with an AR-15 isn't either.

at1with0 wrote:

blackvault wrote:I think the line has been drawn. It's not now down to redrawing the lines on guns... it's figuring out it ISN'T the guns... and it's the actual people using them. In the Newtown case... Lanza's mother carelessly giving access to those guns to a mentally disturbed person. That's the issue - not gun control.

Yes the line has been drawn. But saying it isn't the choice of weapon doesn't add up. The choice of weapon matters.

Perhaps all gun owners should be tested to see if they are mentally disturbed. But that would be impractical since they can lie. Are we going to blame mental illness now? If mental illness was a causal factor, then it should be the case that everyone (or most even) with mental illness is a mass murderer.

During the week that Lanza shot those twenty kids there was another incident that was overshadowed. In China, where private ownership of guns is outlawed, a man stabbed twenty two kids in a public school. Not having a gun did not stop him from committing the same kind of crime with the same number of victims. Banning guns here will not solve anything.

Halfabo wrote:

at1with0 wrote:

blackvault wrote:I think the line has been drawn. It's not now down to redrawing the lines on guns... it's figuring out it ISN'T the guns... and it's the actual people using them. In the Newtown case... Lanza's mother carelessly giving access to those guns to a mentally disturbed person. That's the issue - not gun control.

Yes the line has been drawn. But saying it isn't the choice of weapon doesn't add up. The choice of weapon matters.

Perhaps all gun owners should be tested to see if they are mentally disturbed. But that would be impractical since they can lie. Are we going to blame mental illness now? If mental illness was a causal factor, then it should be the case that everyone (or most even) with mental illness is a mass murderer.

During the week that Lanza shot those twenty kids there was another incident that was overshadowed. In China, where private ownership of guns is outlawed, a man stabbed twenty two kids in a public school. Not having a gun did not stop him from committing the same kind of crime with the same number of victims. Banning guns here will not solve anything.

The Lefties can just ban knives, problem solved. amiright?

Automobiles are not protected in the constitution...the right to keep and bear arms is protected...as a right ..not a privilege.

Under various state laws...licensing is a controlled and regulated enterprise.

Hunting licenses
Marriage licenses
Drivers licenses...

also various permits.

et al. These are all privileges granted by the state or government.


The matter at issue is do we want to become Englishmen or Continentals...where there are not rights ...only privileges granted by a sovereign to a subject...by government.


What I notice is that no one..even the so called conservative leaders are speaking of this trend...becoming Englishmen/Continentals...nor of rights verses privileges.

This fellow Piers Morgan is textbook of thinking that we need a Soverign over us to extend privileges ...not to protect our rights as individuals. For he thinks that the English system of laws and what it has become is the model for Americans...to make us Subjects.

Diane Feinstein..is the same as Piers Morgan...someone who, by education, by feelings, by entitlement..by Royalty..thinks that Americans should be subject to government in all aspects of their life..not individuals who have liberty and Rights..but subjects of a government/Sovereign. The English/Contenintal system...of privileges granted by a sovereign.

The Republicans are phonys here on this issue and many others...for they are only Democrat Lite...a foil designed to deceive the American people into thinking they are conservative when they are not. A foil designed to steer or reflect the American people into becoming Englishmen...Subjects.


There is a very distinct difference between Rights under law and privileges granted by a Sovereign.

The function of the American government is to protect the rights of the individual..rights with which you are born..not granted by governmen but by which we are born ..not to turn them into privileges granted by a Sovereign...and to do so stealthly without the people/individual being aware of what is happening...because they have never been educated as to the difference.

Once you start going down the road of privileges...everything changes and government takes more and more and more...from the people to support government. And we see this happening at a very accelerated rate as government seeks more and more power and control over the people by limiting their ability to choose and steer their destinys.
And they also educate you in public schools and the media as to how good this is for you to have your freedoms and liberties ceded to government.

The government and the media as well as public education are lying and deceiving the whole of America on this.

They are attempting to find all Amerians guilty of a crime they have not committed and then punish/remove their private property from them.

They are attempting to find Americans lacking in not living in fear and guilt..and ceding power of punnishment/regulation to the government to remove private property from them.

The essence of being Amerian is ownership/control of private property. This is what separates Amerians from every other people on this earth. The ability to own and regulate our own private property.

Once you go down this road...and cede to government it will be one excess by government after another excess against their own people by this same government.

We are going to find ourselves back under Feudalism...the very thing the Founding Fathers wanted to prevent...The English/Continental model...Feudalism.

And Feudalism is also Communism.

As G. F. W. Hegel stated..."The State is God"

Be Warned, For I am not just speaking of ownership of guns/firearms here..but all private property..including your thoughts and feelings/sentiments. For these too are attempting to be controlled and regulated by government/media censorship/guilt manipulations. To make Americans fearful, malleable, controllable, manipulatable by government/media and to control our private property including what we produce by our labor/private property.

Orangetom

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't all the Senators have secret service protection or a least some armed security paid for by the government. All the Hollywood liberals and elected people preaching to us about guns and protection, and they all have armed body guards and elaborate security.

Great post, OT, as usual.