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Connecticut school shooting: 18 children among 27 dead

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Postby En-Lugal » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:46 pm

bionic wrote:so awful :(
I have to wonder how much online gaming and online encouragement (via boards and the like) pushing guns and violence, in general has to do with this.

A-lot of these young guys say stuff online like, "I am gonna go off soon" and nobody really takes it seriously. Some even encourage that talk. Maybe not realizing , while they themselves are not being serious, the person to whom they are communicating is. Or maybe someone viewing or listening to their conversation is more serious, and is feeling encouraged. I am not saying this is happening, but I do have to wonder. I feel with all the online, public talks we have, not knowing how we might be encouraging or discouraging someone in this way, we should, at least, take a moment to consider it.

They are saying he might have been on the autistic spectrum. I know that very high functioning autistics and asperger folks can sometimes have a really hard time with human interelations and empathy. This can set them up for being bullied or ostracized. Which, in turn, can create a monster in them over time, because of their lack of empathy issues.

I remember that one guy, the Virginia Tech shootings. He was also on the spectrum. This all concerns me personally, because as many of you know, my son is on the spectrum. He, though, very loving, has also shown that he does not get human emotion and empathy the way regular people do. Also, as he is going through puberty, with his testosterone levels rising, I have noticed a rise in his anger and agression issues.


I get that, I really do and I have a son with those same problems. He inherited it all from me, I grew up fine despite those problems. I haven't gone on any shooting sprees and I've owned plenty of assault weapons in my time. Sure I'm a dick, which I'm working on it, but that isn't illegal...yet. I can certainly see my son getting into further trouble because of this tragedy though. It's not that I have zero empathy, I just don't feel sorry for stupid people. I also find the image of lazy entitlement cases being hit by a bus extremely humorous and it makes me giggle. :twisted:

I'm a huge fan of karma, she's awesome, and love to see people get exactly what they have coming to them. The only thing that makes it funnier is when they have plenty of warning. :lol:
The modern definition of ‘racist’ is someone who’s winning an argument with a liberal.
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Postby rath » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:23 am

greeney2 wrote:
rath wrote:Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:


Don't argue with me, you own country said exactly what the truth is. Gun Control had no significant impact in Australia.


Bullsh*t, show me where they said that. :lol:

Gun crime was already so low in Australia before high powered weapons where outlawed back in 1996.

Police shooting account for almost %80 of gun fatality's in Australia.

So your claim that gun crime has risen is wrong because the figures are inaccurate & the Australian gun crime stats where already based on a very low base line to start with.


& as a result there have been no mass murders on the scale of what you get in the USA ....... Australia's worst mass killing was the Port Arther massacre. back in 1996.

Yes we get gun crime in Australia ..... you will get it everywhere, but we don't get gun crime on the scale that we would had we not banned high powered weapons to the general public.


despite what you think Greeney2 ...... Guns are not illegal in Australia. they are restricted to those who need them for work & sport ... ect ect ( such as a farmer, police officer, military personnel, Hunters & sporting shooters.

A school teacher or a hair dresser has no need for high powered rifles .....
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Postby rath » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:34 am

Like i said .... The Australia figures for gun crime where so low to start with.


Results: In Victoria, two periods of legislative reform related to firearms followed mass shooting events in 1988 and 1996. A national firearm amnesty and buyback scheme followed the latter. Victorian and Australian rates of firearm related deaths before reforms (1979–86) were steady. After initial Victorian reforms, a significant downward trend was seen for numbers of all firearm related deaths between 1988 and 1995 (17.3% in Victoria compared with the rest of Australia, p<0.0001). A further significant decline between 1997 and 2000 followed the later reforms. After the later all state legislation, similar strong declines occurred in the rest of Australia from 1997 (14.0% reduction compared with Victoria, p = 0.0372). Victorian reductions were observed in frequencies of firearm related suicides, assaults, and unintentional deaths before and after the 1988 reforms, but statistical significance was reached only for suicide.
Conclusion: Dramatic reductions in overall firearm related deaths and particularly suicides by firearms were achieved in the context of the implementation of strong regulatory reform.


http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/5/280.full

Latter on ill see if i can find the most up-to date figures ...... Figures that will show a further decrees in gun related deaths/crime.
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Postby rath » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:39 am

Greeney2 ...... it freaking blows my mind' that you even think that you can compare gun crime in the USA. To that of gun crime in Australia.

The two are not even close.
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:47 am

I just showed you the statistics from your own bureau. Go argue with them about it, Australians don't lie! :lol:

rath wrote:despite what you think Greeney2 .....


I never said a thing about what I think concerning your gun control, I commented on your own reports, that it has not had any impact. I asked for the specifics of your gun control laws.

From what you just said, buying a gun for personal protection is not allowed in Australia, where in the USA it is. Your own reports state your rape and violent crimes have increased, while ours have gone down. This is what your reports state--reports from the Australian bureau of criminal statistics.
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Postby chiselray » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:45 am

greeney2 wrote:Again your own country stated "gun control had no impact". YOU just have not had a shooting spree yet since the 1997 insodent, but you obviously still have the guns within your country to perpetrate it with, since the statistics have not impacted other crimes. It is not going to detour a mentally deranged mind either. I would like to know the details of how your gun control was put in place, after this 1997 spree. what is and is not allowed, how they enacted it, and how it affected guns already owned, etc. etc.

Take all the legal guns off the streets and out of homes that meet the criteria for automatic military assault weapons, and you could still have the same results with any number of hunting weapons. These modern assault weapons are registered, but how can you get them out of the underworld of gangs and crime, that have arsenals of them snuck into the country, or are stolen? You can't begin to imagine how many guns are in this world that are not registered. They range from antiques to military souvenirs of many wars. There have been just as many mass murders, and shooting sprees, done with what anyone would call a hunting rifle or bird hunting shotgun. These things have happened in the USA, Australia, Germany, Scotland, Finland, Norway.

Glad to see you back once in while Mael.


yes it's all true ,we have not had a single case of shooting spree since 1997 ... did our gun laws pretty much have an impact on this type of crime...you have to admit it has made a statistic interesting.
Key word - (availablity) to the types of guns which these shooters use .In Australia the key word is an issue if you just want to wander down the street and order a semi or automatic weapon after youv'e filled out your paperwork .And again your friend or parents can't simply just have a shitload of guns sitting in the house.
It is quite easy to see really ,in your country a shooter can buy a few rapid fire weapons when he is sane one minute and the next day or month whatever decide he's having a bad day and sh*t happens., He may just as well have a few given to him by his daddy for his birthday .Or in quite a few instances the ownership of weapons were held by the parents in which the shooter simply shot them and continued on his rampage .. there were 2 miilion guns allegedly sold last month in the US .wow staggering..
Again key word here is availability !
I don't see how a hunting rifle could out shoot an automatic style weapon ? the difference is immediatly noticable ,really .But it surelly can kill i don't deny it .But if you decided to shoot a shop full of terrorists coming after you ....which would you choose ,which gun is more likely to drop as many people as possible before they drop you ?
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Postby chiselray » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:54 am

i saw a gun lobyist on the telly claiming that had the teachers been armed ,the kids may have survived...funny stuff there ...
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Postby capricorn » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:54 am

rath wrote:Do you really think he could have killed 28 people if all he had access to was a kitchen knife & a rolling pin.

Sooooo...What are you saying? Control the mass population in a way that they can only have access to knifes and rolling pins? Ha, thats a stretch, even for the amazing do no wrong country of australia. But, if you are saying just ban guns, then again I refer to the Timothy McVeigh example in which he didnt use 1 single weapon

chiselray wrote:if we explored the topic ( shooting spree ) ,maybe we could get to the nitty gritty ,why are we all of a sudden talking about BOMBS ...
These kids weren't killed by a bomb ,if any nutter can shoot his mama and steal her guns ,then what will stop teh next one from doing it.Iv'e noticed taht gun lovers automatically deny that any gun is a problem , when their love for guns is under the spotlight after such a tragedy,but then i think they can't defend really the actions of owning such weapons by josleling around the arguement and putting up comparisons that arent relevant to shooting sprees .
In china a man tried to kill 22 kids with a knife ,he got 22 with it ,but all lived ,so if comparisons should be relevant then i think all amercians should swap guns for knives maybe.


We are talking about Bombs because both Bombs and Guns are inanimate objects. Both are used by humans to cause mass killings.
For that matter, what if a psychopath went into a school with a nail-gun and took out a classroom with that? Should we then ban nail guns? Of what if they went through school with a pesticide sprayer, loaded it with gasoline (crerated a flame thrower) and burn classrooms of kids. Do we then ban pesticide srayers? These are absolutely horrible things to think of but again, a psychopath doesnt care about the means he has to murder people, he will find anyway to do it.

at1with0 wrote:And what is ultimately behind the psychopath?


Great question! While there are many factors, I think a major problem is what mael argues in his last post on the subject

mael wrote:Prescribed psychoactive medication. That's what the common denominator is. The media is shy to say it because such pharmaceuticals are a massive money-maker. Jobs are given to otherwise useless members of society, and they call them 'clinical psychologists.'


At the end of the day, guns don't kill people, people kill people.
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Postby rath » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:28 pm

greeney2 wrote:I just showed you the statistics from your own bureau. Go argue with them about it, Australians don't lie! :lol:

rath wrote:despite what you think Greeney2 .....


I never said a thing about what I think concerning your gun control, I commented on your own reports, that it has not had any impact. I asked for the specifics of your gun control laws.


Feel free to provide a valid link Greeney2.

greeney2 wrote:From what you just said, buying a gun for personal protection is not allowed in Australia


As always, you fail to grasp the facts. not all Guns are not illegal, just high powered assault weapons, & semi automatic & fully automatic weapons.

Australia ran a gun buy back in 1997 after assault weapons where outlawed.

You can still go to a gun shop & buy say a 22. ( just not an M16 )
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Postby capricorn » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:18 pm

"a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people."
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