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Postby En-Lugal » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:19 pm

orangetom1999,

I know exactly what you mean. Accountability and responsibility has been bred out of the past several generations. It goes beyond the usual, where each generation before me always pointed at the next generation as a slacker. In this case, it really has happened. My sisters and every generation thereafter have this sense of entitlement. There is no accountability anymore, I see it everyday in the workplace. There is no "job well done" mentality anymore. No "take pride in your work" attitude. I out perform young men and women 15 plus years my junior on the job on a daily basis.

They don't care either, they really don't. However after the holidays are over, they will as they'll be job hunting again. I was told today that I'll be taking their hours and positions. My managers would rather give me those hours than have all those slackers taking up space. Even my children, despite my teachings, exude these tendencies. One is coming around as she has a job after school but the other two, I fear for their future.

at1with0 wrote:Aren't you the one who believes that God chooses men and women to be with him regardless of the choices people make because no one has free will? And if no one has free will, indeed in what way is a man accountable and responsible?


Abraham was chosen, he had free will and could have disobeyed but he didn't.
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Postby at1with0 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:40 pm

OT has stated before that it matters not what we do, God has either chosen us or not.
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Postby greeney2 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:44 pm

Sorry OT but you do counterdict yourself. If you can resist temptation, this can only mean you have free will to either resist or not resist temptation. In other words your own choice, which is free will.
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Postby orangetom1999 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:26 pm

There is no free will Salvation..none in Salvation.

Natural men tend towards attempting confusion on this unless one knows the difference.

There is free will in obeying the Gospel and what God told us to do if we belong to him..purchased.

We do not determine if we are saved or not..that is totally up to Him.



Remember. Moses was a murderer...for he killed the Egyptian. So too was King David..in killing the Husband of Bathsheba.

Both of them were punnished for disobeying God. King David severely. They did not get away scott free.

But they did not by themselves determine their Salvation.

The history of natural men..is not only of self promotion in determining their own punnishment ...often not at all..by talmudic rule making...deception by stealth...but also a belief in determinging ones own salvation.

This is what I often mean by the words..."The children of the bond woman "shall" be heir with the children of the free woman.."


For the Word states clearly .."The children of the bondwoman "Shall Not" be heir with the children of the free woman.

And once you know this as a pattern of operation...you can see man on his own merits and demerits attempting to build the perfect "Utopia" on the backs and suffering of others while attempting to remove God and His Word from everything in our daily life...public and private..while claiming they are not doing this. For they are of the counterfeitter..the liar and deceiver.

No free will in Salvation. We do not save ourselves. For we are saved by Blood..His Blood..not blood provided by we ourselves. Not by our works. But by Grace. Unmerited Grace.
Sovereign Grace.

When God looks upon us ..He had better see the Blood covering us..not our own provided blood ..but the Blood He provided ..the Lamb He Provided. not our works..but His Finished Work.

For this is the difference in man's wisdom and God's Wisdom.


Thanks,
Orangetom
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Postby orangetom1999 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:36 pm

En Lugal,

I know exactly what you mean. Accountability and responsibility has been bred out of the past several generations. It goes beyond the usual, where each generation before me always pointed at the next generation as a slacker. In this case, it really has happened. My sisters and every generation thereafter have this sense of entitlement. There is no accountability anymore, I see it everyday in the workplace. There is no "job well done" mentality anymore. No "take pride in your work" attitude. I out perform young men and women 15 plus years my junior on the job on a daily basis.

They don't care either, they really don't. However after the holidays are over, they will as they'll be job hunting again. I was told today that I'll be taking their hours and positions. My managers would rather give me those hours than have all those slackers taking up space. Even my children, despite my teachings, exude these tendencies. One is coming around as she has a job after school but the other two, I fear for their future.


Well said..olde man...well said. For I too notice this around me greatly. All over the place.
This is not the upward reach of mankind...but de evolution. Spiritually as well as in secular matters.

Thanks,
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:04 pm

OT you can take the long way around the barn, over something simple. All people have a free will do make their own choices in life, over the sins we do, kind of people we are, and our Faith. We are responsible for our own results, and we are the Masters of our own ships, spiritually and otherwise.

El Lugal, sounds like your co-workers were hired as temps for the holidays, and what you say is true. Had these people taken the job seriously, maybe they would have been the few selected to be retained. Bottom-line is you have to make yourself worth keeping. Even in Seniority based union jobs, when layoffs come, your skills may be what saves you. I've been there many times over the years, when cutbacks come, and they have to layoff according to seniority, I've been saved by some of the special jobs I could do. So I was the cut off man or real close to it. Best way to avoid layoffs is making yourself invaluable. That is a choice, that if you decide to just punch the time clock, and do the bare minimum, they see it. They also know who they can depend on, and who is too important to the company.
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Postby at1with0 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:12 pm

I agree with g2 on this.

OT, if there is no free will then we are not accountable for our mistakes or worthy of praise for our successes. We might as well become Satanists (insert any non-Christian faith here) in the event that God makes up its mind regardless of what we do.
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:04 pm

You can also insert any Christian Faith that does not meet whatever standard OT is talking about, which apparently is everyone else. :lol:
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Postby orangetom1999 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:17 pm

Greeny2,

All people have a free will do make their own choices in life, over the sins we do, kind of people we are, and our Faith. We are responsible for our own results, and we are the Masters of our own ships, spiritually and otherwise.



From Ephesians chapter 2.

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Grace ...Greeny2..is one of His names among many. So too is Faith.

Notice how this differs from "We are the masters of our own ship..spiritually and otherwise"??

One of us has a very different doctrine from what is stated in the Word. You see it says here it is not our Faith..but His..put into us. The new creature.


at1with0,

OT, if there is no free will then we are not accountable for our mistakes or worthy of praise for our successes.


Isaiah 42:8

I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images



As I recall it...one of the other names for Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins..is also...Praise. And Praise is also the translation of the name Judah. And He is of the tribe of Judah...not of Levi. Of which no man gave attendance at the Olde Testament altar. (Hebrews 7) Yet His priesthood is the everlasting priesthood of Melchizedek...not of Levi.

My understanding and knowledge is that all Praise and glory are to Him..not to us.

Thanks to all for their posts,
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Postby bionic » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:54 pm

we are given circumstances..we are given choices..what we do with the circumstances and the choices is up to us. However..our circumstances and our choices shape us along the way...seems kinda like a quicksand set up, to me
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